New Millennium Eurodiplomacy (Part Deux)

[Curumbor Elendil]

Since the other thread has 159 posts, we have to move to this one.

Here's a little screenshot from a corner of the Austrian civilization.



The Vienna-Budapest axis forms the core of the Austro-Yugoslavo-Hungarian civilization. Formerly, Budapest was Magyar while Vienna was South German - until Budapest was ethnically cleansed of the Magyar population under Fuehrer Napoleon Hitler I. Following the long Fascist period, these regions are now quite small in the European context, but with a move to a free-market economy, greater production of luxuries is beginning to draw people from the countryside into the cities and to reduce mortality rates.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 04-05-2001 12:46 PM</font>
One of the things that has been bugging me and that i know is going to create a big fight is the warfare. When curumber "declared" war on me he moved his units up to my cities after i ended my turn and then the next turn(because he is ahead in color) he attacked. THat gives him 2 moves. If i where to attack, and he hasn't ended his turn i can move all my units up to his cities. he could then move all his units, and the next turn he could attack and destroy all my invading units before i get the chance to attack. To solve this i think the attacking party should get turn should always move first in a turn regardless of thier color, till peace is signed.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That is the rule. The problem was that war was declared in the middle of a turn, but you had already finished moving your units. So technically you could have moved your units and attacked me after I moved my units up to your cities - but you didn't have any units left to move. So I guess we just need to add to our rule the stipulation that you must declare war at the very beginning of a turn. I actually tried to do that, but with the furious negotiations swirling around I didn't get around to it till you'd moved all your units. But from now on, we'll make it a rule that you have to declare war at the beginning.

BTW, does anyone object to my setting the game year at 1870 for when we start up again? It's just ridiculous for Electronics to be researched and the Hydroelectric Project ready to be built in 1180 AD! Obviously, changing the game year won't affect any substantive aspect of the game. I already have a file ready, and I can ICQ it to Markus.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

P.S. Drake, those are freight trains.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[markusf]

changing the year will affect research rates, and it will affect what turns your allowed to change governments. I forget the exact year in which it changes to allow u to change governments nearly every year.

[markusf]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Much trading continued with the Italians and Russians and it is believed the Turks now welcome QB's trade with open arms....
Special trading plans are being considered with Turkey once the airport facilty is available.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>


The turks ban trading with the english. no caravans ALLOWED

[drake]

Don't mind me asking, but just what are those blue cloud-like things at the bottom of your screenshot?

[Berzerker]

I think war should be declared at the end of the previous turn, Markus has a legitimate gripe since he is supposed to get a full turn to prepare for war. Oh well, practice makes perfect, it takes some experimentation to get this map/scenario down.

[markusf]

One of the things that has been bugging me and that i know is going to create a big fight is the warfare. When curumber "declared" war on me he moved his units up to my cities after i ended my turn and then the next turn(because he is ahead in color) he attacked. THat gives him 2 moves. If i where to attack, and he hasn't ended his turn i can move all my units up to his cities. he could then move all his units, and the next turn he could attack and destroy all my invading units before i get the chance to attack. To solve this i think the attacking party should get turn should always move first in a turn regardless of thier color, till peace is signed.

Also a 15 minute timer will be strictly enforced, Diety has no excuse for taking 1 hour to move, because he is in dem all military units can't be moved outside the city... Micromanageing 30 cities is pointless and really not needed(use the damn F4 key!). we played 3 actual turns in 3 hours + 2 turns we used on the reload.. which really bugs me because i can't move any of my settlars or units in that time.

[Guest]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 04-05-2001 05:25 PM</font>
BTW, does anyone object to my setting the game year at 1870 for when we start up again? It's just ridiculous for Electronics to be researched and the Hydroelectric Project ready to be built in 1180 AD! Obviously, changing the game year won't affect any substantive aspect of the game. I already have a file ready, and I can ICQ it to Markus.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No, I don't want that. We are dealing with the unknown vaguaries of the program. It may alter our relative advantages. Forget it. We been playing civ like this for years - don't make changes like that in mid-game!

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[Guest]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 04-05-2001 12:46 PM</font>
Also a 15 minute timer will be strictly enforced, Diety has no excuse for taking 1 hour to move, because he is in dem all military units can't be moved outside the city... Micromanageing 30 cities is pointless and really not needed(use the damn F4 key!). we played 3 actual turns in 3 hours + 2 turns we used on the reload.. which really bugs me because i can't move any of my settlars or units in that time.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

You are so full of it man!
What a total exageration.
You said I took 33 mins, I doubt it was even that long.
We moved for the reloads anyway, didn't we?
I certainly moved my units more than 3 times. Can someone verify this?

Without giving away too much of Queen Boudicca's privates let me say that I have a ton of units to move:
* Under Democracy you CAN move lotsa units - I got nearly 100.
* Plus I got MANY freight - The Russians can verify this

Add to this the lag and I DON'T SPEND hardly anytime doing microing.
You have to believe me on this.

I'm actualy disadvantaged by the lag and missing out on microing to some extent.

What happens is you click GoTo for a unit to move.
You can't move to any other activity other than Advisors without stopping the unit moving. So you just watch the f***er moving like a freaking snail!

So don't give me the s**ts

---

Also, Markus and finbar remember when Elendil quit the game as host because his cara disappeared into thin air. He quit, without discussion.
Everyone has had their gripes in this game and when I said much earlier in the game that I lost a tri with settler and diplo on board Elendil said I should have complained straight away and we would restart.

Anyway, in the last session I had a problem and wanted a restart. I didn't just quit, but asked. Then it had to go to a friggin vote! Which I won, luckily.

Also, markus has been winging all game about his cara bugs etc. And Elendil went to the trouble to edit the scenario to fix this.
finbar revolted accidentally and we went back a few turns for him.
So, I'm not the only one.

What I'm saying is it's OK to have these gripes but let's be fair about it.
If Markus lost 2000 gold on that last startup then I'm happy for it to be edited back in..... friggin SIMUL - BRING BACK TURN-BASED!!!!!!!

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Berzerker on 04-06-2001 12:25 AM</font>
I think war should be declared at the end of the previous turn, Markus has a legitimate gripe since he is supposed to get a full turn to prepare for war. Oh well, practice makes perfect, it takes some experimentation to get this map/scenario down.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well, the end of the previous turn would allow the defender 2 turns to rush buy before the declarer can attack. (Assuming you wouldn't let the attacker attack the turn right after declaring.) I think that's a bit excessive.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

OK, I guess I won't change the game year, though I don't think it affects game dynamics in any way. I won't be writing stories anymore, they're just too ridiculous. I'll write game reports, though.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[markusf]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 04-06-2001 08:35 AM</font>
Well, the end of the previous turn would allow the defender 2 turns to rush buy before the declarer can attack. (Assuming you wouldn't let the attacker attack the turn right after declaring.) I think that's a bit excessive.


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

no, i am just saying whoever declares war first is allowed to attack first, regardless of color. SO if i declare war on you this turn, i get to move first in every turn until we have peace. Otherwise as you did last time you will just stall till the end of my turn, move all your units up to mine (maybe even attack them) and the next turn you would get to move all your units again. Let me give you an example. germans declare war on the british, after the english have stoped moving. The british then land 5 vet artillery outside of 5 english cities. The next turn the germans get to move first again, they would then attack 5 english cities with artillary. For some reason i feel people are going to complain about this. And yes i want my $2000 gold back. I sold a lot of tech etc on that last turn. Everyone else got the tech and lost the money. And i bought over 20 improvements and they all vanished(reset)

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 04-06-2001 11:46 AM</font>
no, i am just saying whoever declares war first is allowed to attack first, regardless of color. SO if i declare war on you this turn, i get to move first in every turn until we have peace.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That's the way it is now; I just stated the rule in more complex language. I think I stated it: "if the attacker is before the defender in turn order, turn order is followed; if the attacker is after the defender in turn order, turn order is reversed." Same thing as what you're saying.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
Otherwise as you did last time you will just stall till the end of my turn, move all your units up to mine (maybe even attack them) and the next turn you would get to move all your units again. Let me give you an example. germans declare war on the british, after the english have stoped moving. The british then land 5 vet artillery outside of 5 english cities. The next turn the germans get to move first again, they would then attack 5 english cities with artillary. For some reason i feel people are going to complain about this.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That's why we have to have declaration of war at the beginning of the turn. What happened was that I declared war in the middle of a turn, after you had moved all your units. Then turn order went into effect, which meant that I moved first, and then you would get to move. But you had no units left to move, so you couldn't. So I'm saying, from now on let's make it a rule to declare war at the very beginning of a turn, so that doesn't happen again.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
And yes i want my $2000 gold back. I sold a lot of tech etc on that last turn. Everyone else got the tech and lost the money. And i bought over 20 improvements and they all vanished(reset)

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I'll check the exact amount that you spent.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[GNGSpam]

This game sounds like loads of fun

This is why Diplogames shouldnt use Simul play =) and powergameing is just ridiculous