standard multiplayer modpack?

[markusf]

Their values are not that high.... remember your calculating on open terrian. what about hill cities and forest/river cities? The attack ratings are there for a reason. Even then vet artillery sucks.

[OzzyKP]

If something should be tweaked you should do something about Celebrating under Republic and Democracy. I think its terribly unrealistic that a city can go from population 3 to 8 in a few turns. Its just a race to get to those techs to double and triple your population. All sorts of other improvements such as grainaraies become pointless when celebrating takes care of all population needs.


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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - French in Millenial Euro Dip
Ozzy - Formerly Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 03-27-2001 12:58 AM</font>
Their values are not that high.... remember your calculating on open terrian. what about hill cities and forest/river cities? The attack ratings are there for a reason. Even then vet artillery sucks.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well, according to the battle odds calculator, a vet artillery (A: 15, HP: 2) 88% chance of beating a fortified vet musketeer on hills (D: 12, HP: 2).

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

Ozzy - you're right of course, but the best I've been able to do is to delay Republic and Democracy as much as possible - Republic now requires Feudalism, which requires Iron Working, and Democracy requires Gunpowder and Economics.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[DaveV]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 03-27-2001 09:50 AM</font>
Well, according to the battle odds calculator, a vet artillery (A: 15, HP: 2) 88% chance of beating a fortified vet musketeer on hills (D: 12, HP: 2).
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I think the vet musketeer's defense is actually 13.5 (3*1.5*1.5*2). But the artillery will still win easily. Even against fortified vet riflemen on a hill (4*1.5*1.5*2=18), the artillery should win, because it inflicts 2 hits for every one hit by the riflemen. Against fortified vet alpines on a hill (5*1.5*1.5*2=22.5), the artillery is at a slight disadvantage, but should still win sometimes. Railroad plus artillery is a deadly combination.

[markusf]

by the time you have artillery you have vet mech infantry. And city walls + spies. Its still going to take a lot of firepower to take out a city. The whole point is not to make stuff invincible.

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 03-27-2001 11:24 AM</font>
by the time you have artillery you have vet mech infantry. And city walls + spies. Its still going to take a lot of firepower to take out a city. The whole point is not to make stuff invincible.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Noo... Artillery come about in the age of riflemen, maybe alpines. Still, I agree in theory that there is some wiggle room in giving things better attack ratings. I tried out the new marines unit you suggested and it doesn't seem to have absurd consequences. The 5-attack legion obviously isn't invincible either - it has the same rating as the crusader. So I guess my position is in between you two: yes, the game balance is sensitive and we should be aware of dangers - but also, we can make the game better if we're careful.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

I did some testing with Capo and discovered that, much to my disappointment, if you change the tech paradigm in a multiplayer game, it does nothing. Not even if everyone has the same rules.txt. We tried it with a 200/10 paradigm. That's probably why the New Millennium game is not going as slowly as it should! This is really disappointing and I see no way around it. I've asked for comments on the Civ 2-Creation board.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[markusf]

? you mean cannons?

yesterday i was attacked with 6 cannons 4 dragoons, and 4 calvery. I had 6 defending vet conscripts in a river city. I didn't lose a single unit.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by markusf (edited March 27, 2001).]</font>

[sekong]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 03-27-2001 04:19 PM</font>
? you mean cannons?

yesterday i was attacked with 6 cannons 4 dragoons, and 4 calvery. I had 6 defending vet conscripts in a river city. I didn't lose a single unit.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by markusf (edited March 27, 2001).]</font>
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That's from me All cannons can only attack at 2/3 strength. That's the reason. American is way behind in tech. After how many different subs I don't know. I think the American deserve some extra techs such as bridge and railroad for game balance issue,no matter who going to take it next time.

[CapTVK]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 03-27-2001 02:24 PM</font>
I did some testing with Capo and discovered that, much to my disappointment, if you change the tech paradigm in a multiplayer game, it does nothing. Not even if everyone has the same rules.txt. We tried it with a 200/10 paradigm. That's probably why the New Millennium game is not going as slowly as it should! This is really disappointing and I see no way around it. I've asked for comments on the Civ 2-Creation board.


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>


This might have something to do with the scenario flag. Maybe you should try saving it as a scenario?

[markusf]

sekong take them over for the rest of the game

[sekong]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 03-27-2001 06:16 PM</font>
sekong take them over for the rest of the game
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

So my request is granted, you will give american bribge or railroad?

[The Capo]

Finally Cur I have time to talk, yes it is ****in 7:30 in the morning before I have to go to class and I'm not feeling particularly saucy right now, so bear with me.

Basically what you are striving for is the ultimate Civilization experience, you want a Multi-Player game that is as perfectly realistic but at the same time fun as possible. To do that you are delaying and making things tougher to actualize, which is a good way to go about doing it.

I think the game requires a few new units and some changes to old units. I think Facism should either replace Fundamentalism or Communism, but most likely Fundamentalism since you get the free unit that is specific to the government.

I think some noteable bridges need to be gapped as well, the cavalry as a precursor to Armo

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by markusf on 03-27-2001 04:19 PM</font>
? you mean cannons?

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No, artillery. Cannons come in the age of musketeers. Machine tools is usually researched before automobile - frequently by the person who owns Leo's because he wants to upgrade his cannons!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
yesterday i was attacked with 6 cannons 4 dragoons, and 4 calvery. I had 6 defending vet conscripts in a river city. I didn't lose a single unit.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by markusf (edited March 27, 2001).]</font>
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That does seem out of whack. In a scenario I once gave 2 FP to all post-musketeer units: it allowed dragoons and cavalry to take out fortified defenders more easily. Perhaps too easily? I don't know.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989