Setting up the best Diplo game in a generation!

[Frank Johnson]

Here's my input.

First after looking at the map...

Early Coastal Ships - +1 movement
I think we should keep the standard ship, and make a trade ship with 2 holds, 4 moves, coastal, 40 sheilds.

Sail/Steam Ships after navigation - +2 movement

If we want to make "winning battles" more rewarding, not requiring the actual taking of territory......I'd suggest units as prestiege points. Whenever you destroy a unit, in your capital this prestiege unit appears in your capital, which can be disbanded for sheilds. However this would require your capital never be taken.

I'd also suggest all "ignore zones of control" abilities be removed!

This #1 allows you to actually defend against diplos and spies (which should cost more anyway)

#2 it avoids defence dodging 1 turn wars. In diplo V every side completely made forts useless by using this, which got lame and boring.

[The Capo]

Frank you fail to realise that Spies should be able to move through because they are spies and avoid such blatant contact, and if you remove ignore ZOC from Partisans it ruins the advantages they have.

Alot of people DON'T build partisans, but I do on occasion because they are very useful to slip behind enemy lines and pillage their infrastructure...

[Frank Johnson]

Capo, I have played a long diplo game with units with ignoring ZOC, and as realistic as it maybe.....I didn't have fun, didn't like it, I thought it took away from strategy and battle. Sure if other units couldn't piggyback in Id think its great for diplos and spies to ign ZOC, but partisans main advantage is the fact they are typically FREE!

[The Capo]

Well, that may be the typical reason, but regardless I think it is part of the game. We should have learned to play with all of the game's abilities, not only a select few. I personally like the strategy involved in piggy backing units, it can be used for evil purposes, but such is the reason for defense. If you are worried that someone is going to slip past your borders into your ill defended center, then defend your center. Not everything can work perfectly in one's favor, and it shouldn't when we are playing a game.

That is my opinion and I'm stickin to it!

[drake]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I believe that is approx the time slot of ultimate dip so i imagine that capo and drake can make that too.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I'm confused.......if we are playing a game at this time already, how can we be available for another game? UltraDip won't likely be completed for atleast 2-3 months from now and neither I or Capo are gonna bail this game.........



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I am the one you warned me of

[Frank Johnson]

Well I've been looking at Ozzy's map trying to determine where the fairest 7 starting places are...

Only problem is when you look at Europe, it has about 1/4 of the world's "nice" land. It would be foolish for game balance to allow Europe to go undivided, but we have to find the fairest way to split it.

If we leave the "New World" out like diplo Diplo V I can't see 7 starting places without rubbing elbows. So I think we're gonna have to use the new world for at least 1 starting position, but that leads to isolation, since no one wants to get stuck in South America......

[OzzyKP]

Well i don't think we really want to carve up the world from the beginning, and sepparate out plots of land for people based on their starting position, that isn't how it should be done. I guess that is one of the failings of playing a pre-made map, the English didn't look at the world map and figure out the best place to start their civ, there were in England and they dealt with it.

Personally i am in favor of completly random starts, though i imagine no one else would agree, so i won't push the issue. But i'd like to be in North America, and don't really mind being all that isolated, it will just give another element to role play.

And i think that while Europe may have really good land on my map, it is really damn small. I think it all evens out. But since we can pretty much start wherever we want, and don't have to be stuck with the traditional earth nation capitols start, since we aren't traditional earth nations, we could pretty much start anywhere. So look at the map, think of a good strategy and call your start. (unless you want to go for random!) but i guess for this it is first come first serve.

And i'd like to make it be known that i want to start in N. America. And depending on how people rule on this, more specifically i think a good spot would be at (11,45) on the map. Which is where my start should be.


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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[The Capo]

Europe is way too small for more than one country to be on it.

I think that worrying about "rubbing elbows" is fruitless, the main point of a diplogame is to rub elbows. I also think that it is fair that we choose our starting points. Nobody said that this game was meant to be realistic, which is apparent by Ozzy's Metalheads.

I dunno where Metal music started, but I propose that's where he starts from.

I will be playing as the European Union so I will start in Brussels since that is where the headquarters are.

I suggest whatever nation you guys pick it be an accurate starting location, and we should stick to my continent restrictions, Europe is too small!

[Frank Johnson]

Hah....if you say so...I just want to mention that Europe up to the Urals is the single largest concenration of grassland and river squares on the entire map by a large margin....

Well, the Virtous Warriors of Na will be located at (70,43) in China.

[OzzyKP]

Ok, so we've got 4 people on board for this game, correct?

Frank - Chinese
Capo - European Union
Drake - ?
Ozzy - Metalheads (in NA)

This is pretty dismal considering Cavebear's game had 14 offers or so. Come on folks, there must be some more experienced diplo gamers out there who are interested in a deffinative diplo game to talk about for years to come. Go off and look for some good players.

CapTVK, you in? Please??


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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[ml_4da3]

Hi!

I am also intrested in joining this game, if i "may".. I maybe have not been so "active" in my other game; the ultimate diplo game. But i will try. Also, if we does not play in the middle of night, that would help a great deal to "involve" me more into the game.

I have one question (i dont "have time" to read thorugh the entire thread); would we play on a world map, or on a "fictional" map? Would it be a "scenario" (with fixed positions), or would it be random? Are there going to be any "special" rules? Rules like no SDI?

[Civ2Veteran]

This sounds like it could be fun. Whoever is in charge, send me an e-mail and let me know when we could chat about the game. I think I'd like to play, especially if it is a "no-quiter" type of game where we save and resume until the end. I will have some extra time free from now until the beginning of January, so I could play longer periods of time than in January.

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[KenThur]

Once again... i'm quite experienced in diplo & would LOVE to stop talking & START PLAYING.

However, not the least bit interested in anything but a randon, UNKNOWN world. So the answer to ml_4da3's Q is important for me.

Been there done that, as far as playing in a game that in 4000BC all the rulers know the lay out of the entire planet = DUMB, adventureless, & TOTALLY UNREALISTIC.

& i'm frankly tired of all the time & effort wasted on "equal starting positions". By its VERY NATURE, a diplo game is about TEAMWORK, not about an INDIVIDUAL civ "winning it all". Guys it's like what 1 country... "won" WWII? Which ONE "lost"?

The times talked about above = good for me. Fairly flexible all weekend + evenings weekdays.

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"Hm-m-m, doubt me you will?"

[cavebear]

KenThur - I think you miss the point about "equal starting positions". It just means that no one starts in a place that wipes them out at the beginning. They just don't start at the far end of a desolate penninsula (unless the other players do also).

[KenThur]

I understand Cave... just don't agree... especially in a diplo game that's all about working together with what U R given.

It's called "comparative advantage" in the world of international business & negotiations. Every one has different things to bring to the table & add to the pot. U play & work with what U have.

Example: If U start on a desolete pennisula... guess U had better start exploring... thus learning map-making & other such skills while others work on roads or mining or...?
>> Make friends, be nice, honor your committments.
>> Let the "big boys" fight it out. (in fact, encouage it)
>> Position yourself to be "the swing vote"... in war & nego's.
>> Trade maps & info for... whatever U need.
>> Build ships & gift them to big friends that will agree to send over fat caravans & such.

That is what works in diplo. That's what diplo is all about. Not everyone starting out "equal". All civ's will live in this game... or else U made so many rulers mad that U deserve to be carved up & vanish.

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"Hm-m-m, doubt me you will?"