Incremental Buying...

[Eyes Of Night]

I discovered a new strategy. Thought I'd name it kind of like the ICS strategy since you all like to name everything in civ. It's called the STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU It also comes with another variation called ADLSFKJWOEURLASJKVLJXCVOIUWERQOIWEJKASHLDFKZX
CJVBNKXJCVHSKJFHASFHASLFH but that is a different story. For now we'll focus on STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU. STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU is a great strategy when used effectively, but you of course need certain qualities. First of all you must be arrogant, with the potential to be a complete dick. Not only that a very large ego is required. Now, in order to use STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU you need to be able to stab a friend in the back which means that you can't suck **** and kiss *** to each other all day long. Not only that you need to possess those qualities that some people like to call Evil. I don't know why they call us that, just seems to be a label. We really are nice people, in our own unique way. Now some of you might think STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU is a really long name, but just think of what people will say!! John doe uses the STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU!!! I can't even spell that thing and he uses it!! Don't you want this fame and fortune?? Don't you want this power over your underlings? Don't you want to feel power just like Ming feels when he deletes a post? Just ask Ming about the kind of power trip he's on. He'll tell you. That's what this whole moderator job is about, POWER!!! I can teach you the STUWOAXNDKSLAIDIFAKNVOIZXCVOINEWROIJALKSDNLZX
KCVJOUIERALKJDSFLKANSDLKJZXCVBOUIWEORUPAOSIZL
KNOEIRUEWOIUPRQOIWELAKSDVLKXJCVZLKXCJVASDOFIU
AWOEIRHQWEORIQWEORUPQEWOIRU strategy for the low low price of 567 quadrillion dollars. But that's not all!!! Call now and I"ll throw in my patented ADLSFKJWOEURLASJKVLJXCVOIUWERQOIWEJKASHLDFKZX
CJVBNKXJCVHSKJFHASFHASLFH strategy for free!!! That means you get 2 strategies for the low price of one!! Call now!! Sorry, no COD's.

Yeah, I know, I was bored. Can you blame me?

Edited by Ming: Next time, put in spaces or use the enter key to break up long strings of letters... all you managed to do was make it hard to read by screwing up the screen
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited April 14, 2000).]</font>
Yeah yeah, you just wanted an excuse to edit the message...just one big power trip I tell you.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Eyes Of Night (edited April 14, 2000).]</font>

[rah]

I only do it during my turn prior to around 3000 bc when the complete turns are taking less than a minute and there's a good chance that you won't complete the transaction before your turn starts and get caught buying something you didn't want. After that it's always during others turns. Every now and then you end up buying the wrong thing, but that's the chance you take.

RAH

[Steve Clark]

All of you have WAY too much time on your hands.

[KhanMan]

Umm, Eyes? It's not the smartest thing in the world to delibrately antagonize the moderator...

Also, it seems that your back to cursing again...didn't your beat-down at Sayen hands teach you to be nicer?

Oh well.

-KhanMan

[hydey]

EYES what an extrordinary plan. IT all makes sense now I shall try it in my next game keep up the good work you are an inspiration to us all

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hooray hooray its a Hydey Hydey day

[SmartFart]

WHAT A PHUCK IS ALL THIS ABOUT ?!?

[Jedi518]

What is with all that crap?! you act so childish eyes...

[mindseye]

Eyes -

I can certainly understand how so much serious discussion about a "game" might seem a bit much. But look at it this way: suppose you just spent scores and scores of hours over a five month period playing a marathon MP game, and you just lost by a narrow margin. Now you find out that the winner was using some tactics you thought weren't allowed. After investing all that time and energy, you might consider it a serious issue!

Besides, Civ2 is a thinking feller's game, so you shouldn't be so surprised!

By the way, are you sure that new strategy of yours was intended by the designers?
- mindseye

[Eyes Of Night]

hehe If you're playing for 5 months on 1 gave you need a girl. And if you're married, maybe you need to get one of those better sex books. hehe

[OzzyKP]

I'm amazed to see Eyes criticize anyone for being too focused on the game. Hehehe, eyes is obsessed with the game more than most of us. Truly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

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Metalhead Greater Sayen, and all 'round nice guy

[Rasputin00]

so which manual is it described as possible to save money by incrementaly building units, I cant find it in my manual , but then all i have is latest manual that comes with game, if I hav eto rely on older verison of manual then obviously designers thought they had removed the BUG when they updated it. If the only manual that refers to it is Civ 1 then again Designers must have thought they fixed the BUG... Problem with incremental buying is no way to detect if someone uses it against you , without saving every turn and then looking at eaxh civ, I personally dont have time to do that, but this again points out why Civ 2 is far harder t olearn than most imagine, because you have to be in the know to perform well....

[iadkins]

Raz, I can only conclude that incremental rush buying is NOT in the manual as many posters claim. I've got 5 manuals and checked them all!
Civ1
Civ2
Civ2Scn
Civ2FW
Civ2MP
If I've missed it please let me know.

THE LOGIC:
So, if it's not in the manual I think we all should firstly admit this.
Therefore it is an undocumented feature and argument will exist over its validity.
Thus it needs to be clearly stated upfront whenever an undocumented feature is allowed in any game.

As you know I would not allow any of them!
[ But finbar me and Pinky are playing a no-howitzers game! Yeah I know.. most of you can't remember using them for a long time ]

I'm discovering that I'm in many games where others are using these features, unbeknowns to me.

Generally when I'm involved in starting up a game I suggest the following as not allowed:
Caraporting
Wonder trading
Unit trading back and forth
and
City & unit bribe situation discussed

I don't think it's my responsibility to seek out ALL known undocumented features and specify whether they are allowed in a certain game! CapTVK seemed to be suggesting that this was just smart strategy. I really do not agree. Exploitation of bugs is another game altogether!

mindseye has covered all the points very thoroughly and echoes my views. I just hope that our posts help to re-dress the civ culture so that at least it is generally agreed that the starting point is NOT to use any undocumented features unless specifically agreed.


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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

[Ming]

You missed a few...
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/H...tml?date=20:23

Oh, and the book suggests saving before entering a hut... maybe we should allow that since it's documented

[iadkins]

Ming:
Saving before entering a hut is a 'documented' feature in the context of learning civ. And is NOT relevant to MP.
If there IS a documented feature that requires rational discussion then fine, let's discuss it - IF relevant

Bur seriously Ming, do you think there is any validity in the logic of my argument?

Or are you seriously suggesting that all those 'features' be discussed prior to every game? I guess that's fine if you play in the same cosy circle with a common understanding! I keep competing with new players and meeting different challenges but would like to play on an even playing field - win or lose.

Otherwise there will always be a mixup of players who abide by different rules. Really absurd and most unsatisfying

Knowledge of the bugs list is quite a separate issue from exploiting them.

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by iadkins (edited April 17, 2000).]</font>

[Ming]

iadkins... we really are on the same page.
I think we both agree that everybody wants a level playing field.
The examples you point out in your earlier post are all classic examples of cheats that (IMHO)go above and beyond the intent of the designers. The trading of units to provide unlimited movement during a turn... giving caravans to people to provide instant trade routes... Trading wonder cities, or any city for that matter so that both parties get the advantage of that city during their turn.
But my point is, you seem to make everything sound like a black vs white issue. All the above examples are within the boundries of the rules and could be said to be covered in the manual. It's just a matter of how people interpret them. Using the many manuals (which some people haven't even bothered to read) as a guideline isn't the most definitive thing. The books are purposely vague to help add to the excitement of discovery during the game. Even the encyclopedia provided doesn't really provide clear information. Again, it comes down to interpretation, and two classic examples of differences of opinion are incremental buying and ship chaining. As rah pointed out, some people think ship chaining is wrong, yet these same people probably have no problem with having a unit end it's movement during a turn in a city, and moving it out of the city on a ship in the same turn... THIS TOO COULD BE CONSIDERED cheating, because you are doing the same thing as you do for ship chaining.


I'm just saying that people shouldn't get on their high horses and be calling people cheaters when the "gray areas" are being discussed. We should all respect other peoples point of view, and make sure that everybody is in agreement before the start of the game.

Your above list didn't mentions some of the other classics that many people have agreed on already. Using airbases to increase food or set up a perimeter that air units can't cross is one such example. The link I provided covers many of the supposed undocumented features of the game. I just want people aware of these, and make sure that people agree what can and can not be used during a game.