Incremental Buying...

[Ming]

I just don't get it. I keep hearing that some people think that Incremental buying of units is cheating and shouldn't be allowed.
HUH! Could somebody who takes that position please explain their logic on this.

In Civ I, you could do this with anything you built. But in Civ II, the designers changed the whole system, creating four different categories:
Units
City Improvements
Wonders
Space Ship Parts

They also added a penality for switching between the categories. You could no longer switch between categories to gain an advantage.
They also changed it so you could really get no advantage for buying up in three of the four categories.
However, they did leave that capibility for units.

So it is obvious to me that a TON of thought went into the new system. And, that it was intentional that you can still do it for units. The designers (IMHO) recoginized the need for building units quickly.

So why do people consider it cheating? Please explain this one to me.

[rah]

Don't know, can't figure it out either. It's been an intregal part of the game since the beginning. And in the original rules it explained how to do it. You're right, they even tweaked it after people took advantage of switching between types. If they wanted to they could have stopped it but they didn't.

Anybody else want to try a logical explanation.

RAH

[Empress]

To me, whether incremental buying is cheating or not depends on who you are playing with and the peramiters of the game. I don't think you should unless all agree that it is ok and unless all are informed on how it is done.

[iadkins]

errrr.....
Why did they make it so you have to frig around with incremental buying when it could have been done in ONE BUY?
Surely this is a design oversight or am I missing something mathematical here?
I'll have to check the manual when I get home.

I also agree with Empress - not everyone knows about it.
Once Matt brought it to my attention in the Diplo VI game I tried one experiment with incremental rush buying and it is WAY too advantageous to those that use it.

And it is just not logical to switch production anyway. Straight rush buying makes sense though.

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*THE DEITY*
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<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by iadkins (edited April 10, 2000).]</font>

[Rasputin00]

i agree with deity. i beleive it was just another oversight of designers and patch builders, how can you switch fro mbuilding one type of unit to anothger, all soprt sof resources ar ewasted.. rush building is fine as it just throwes your economy bewhind the result,

and remember not all know of this

[SmartFart]

Aww......cmon.....
Everyone knows about it and everyone using it.

If barb archer appears next to your city and you're 3-4 gold short,what will you do?
Rush-build a warrior?

Just don't say 'yes'.

[Smash]

Wasn't the rushing of improvements addressed in a patch?It used to be cheaper to buy incrementaly but now it costs the same.No such "fix" was done for units.I don't need any more proof than that to make me believe this is intentional

[Rasputin00]

everyone on these boards may know of it , but the people here are the minority when it comes to playing games..
And I dont fully understand your question, 3-4 gold short of what ?? building a warrioe ??

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Rasputin00 (edited April 11, 2000).]</font>

[SmartFart]

a) city have one shield in production box
b) rush-buying horseman cost 56 gold
c) rush-buying warrior cost 22 gold
d) switch to horseman
e) rush-buying horseman (after you already buy a warrior ) cost 25 gold
f) 22+25=47
g) i don't know what to say anymore

[Ming]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Rasputin00 on 04-10-2000 11:14 PM</font>
i beleive it was just another oversight of designers and patch builders...
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Again, from Civ I to Civ II, they totally revamped this area of the game. (Just read your manuals). A lot of changes were made with a lot of thought put into it by the designers. IMHO, this was no oversight. They made sure you couldn't do it in the three other categories, but left it in place for units.

[Rasputin00]

and ming they left all the other "cheats / loopholes " in place purposefully too ????

i understnad how you think this may be so, but then why isnt it documented re the saving in cost by incremental buying, civ 2 is complicated enough without having to learn all the "undocumented" features...

I want to know who has had the time to work all this out , i never knew what was stated above was so benificial , is evryon already doing this? no wonder i fall behind in unit construction with some people....

[Ming]

Rasputin00... Yes, they did leave a lot of cheats in the game. But that is because they are simply unaware of them. The incremental buying they WERE AWARE of. They changed the whole buying system because of it from Civ I to Civ II. And after all that, they still allow incremental buying of units. That's why I say (IMHO) that is intentional on their part.
And you really don't need any time to work them all out. Just check my thread in the CivIII suggestion section We have been putting together a list to let them know what problems currently exist so they MIGHT correct them in the next game... http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/H...tml?date=22:43

[iadkins]

This still doesn't address my point that if it was deliberate why make it such a cumbersome process - surely far simpler to change the maths for rush buying?
There's enough microing in this game anyway.

So, the more I think about it and read about it, IMHO this is definitely an oversight.

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

[Rasputin00]

i havent seen that in documentation RAH, referiing not being able to buy settler...

and I agree , most on these threads have now seen something re this problem, but to bleeive that all the people that paly post here is not true, i know about 4 people myslef that never post here , and yet love playing MP ...

I have never once been asked by anyone i play whether to use incremntal buying or not, appears that msot people either assume everyone is doing it , or dont want to announce it during game setup , just in case

[Ming]

Heck, I've never announced it prior to a game, because I treat it the same way as any other regular rule of the game. It wasn't until somebody mentioned that some people thought this was cheating that it has come up. It's part of the documentation, and is part of the game. Unless somebody mentions it... like no city bribe... I assume that all regular rules are in play.

But I have to ask a question...
If one or more persons isn't aware of a normal rule, why does that make it cheating if you use it. Again, I expect everybody I play to have at least read the manual. Ignorance of one of the basics facts of the game doesn't make it a cheat for those that have done their homework