You got me to work, Darius. Here it is:
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point 1.
OK. There are 2 possibilities:
a) a game where reloading is not considered as cheating.
This game is warp enough. Warriors kill tanks etc. Any other cheating cannot harm it anymore. You agree yourself:
b) a game where reloading is considered as cheating.
My reason remains...
...unless...
...but you will have to explain it more concrete. Take a game where any warrior can kill a tank and players detect enemy units by moving their own units and reloading back. Explain how the game will be corrupted if somebody will remove a password moreover?
Another point is that you are in contradiction with yourown words in the quote under point a)
point 2.
1. one or two ways are enough IMHO (see last paragraph in point 1)
2. the desired situation is not that most people don't cheat and few cheat. You want that nobody cheats. And the current policy feed possible cheating.
Due to point 1 there is nothing to be risked. Most people can cheat/spoil the game by reloading. Some people can use more ways.
point 3.
Which sentence will result in more games ruined by cheating (a dozen of which I've been a part of)?
You forgot to answer...
Ehm... which policy was used in those ruined games? Did you say sentence B) before those games or not?
What is a secure game?
point 4.
Um, situation A.
Um ...You wouldn't have bad feelings that you used people trust you?
And perceive Civ2 cheating is different. You don't get a free money resp. a free win. You also lose the entertaining elements I described in the thread about reloading.
point 5 and 6.
If you want to detect possible cheating, then you must open many saves. You never know in advance which you will want to open and you won't be willing to wait hours for each one.
But the cheater will feel like an elite man after getting over some obstacles. And he will want to exploit his 'work'. This wouldn't happen if his 'secret knowledges' weren't secret but public.
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point 1.
Originally posted by Darius
...which is not considered cheating, for the moment at least.
Originally posted by SlowThinker
also anybody can do the save/load loop
also anybody can do the save/load loop
a) a game where reloading is not considered as cheating.
This game is warp enough. Warriors kill tanks etc. Any other cheating cannot harm it anymore. You agree yourself:
Originally posted by Darius
That's another argument we used; reloading for 'reconnaissance' brings the same result as revealing the map, so should be considered morally equivalent. This, also, was lost on them.
Originally posted by SlowThinker
Hm, I don't think cheating (map revealing} might cause big harm to so strange games...
Hm, I don't think cheating (map revealing} might cause big harm to so strange games...
My reason remains...
...unless...
Originally posted by Darius
ABSOLUTELY.
Originally posted by SlowThinker
Do you think there is a difference if people can cheat by 2 ways or 10 ways?
Do you think there is a difference if people can cheat by 2 ways or 10 ways?
Another point is that you are in contradiction with yourown words in the quote under point a)
point 2.
Originally posted by Darius
most would only be able to think of one or two ways.
most would only be able to think of one or two ways.
2. the desired situation is not that most people don't cheat and few cheat. You want that nobody cheats. And the current policy feed possible cheating.
but when methods of cheating are publicly posted it could light a spark in some of them. Why take the risk?
point 3.
Originally posted by SlowThinker
You will say:
A) There are some ways how to cheat, we know them, but we won't reveal them to you because you could eventually try.
B) Cheating is very easy, you can do it this way, but we trust you.
Which sentence brings mistrust? A) or B)?
You will say:
A) There are some ways how to cheat, we know them, but we won't reveal them to you because you could eventually try.
B) Cheating is very easy, you can do it this way, but we trust you.
Which sentence brings mistrust? A) or B)?
Ehm... which policy was used in those ruined games? Did you say sentence B) before those games or not?
Secure and long-lasting games >>>> a 'trusting atmosphere'.
point 4.
Originally posted by SlowThinker
4. The mistrust atmosphere(2) and capabilities to break obstacles
Imagine two situations:
A) You live in a world where banks deposit banknotes in open shelves. Anybody could steal money easily. There is a trusting atmosphere.
B) You live in a normal world: banks protect money by very sofisticated systems. But you contrived to reveal a loophole there (by an accident or because you struggled for it).
In which situation would you tend to steal easier?
4. The mistrust atmosphere(2) and capabilities to break obstacles
Imagine two situations:
A) You live in a world where banks deposit banknotes in open shelves. Anybody could steal money easily. There is a trusting atmosphere.
B) You live in a normal world: banks protect money by very sofisticated systems. But you contrived to reveal a loophole there (by an accident or because you struggled for it).
In which situation would you tend to steal easier?
And perceive Civ2 cheating is different. You don't get a free money resp. a free win. You also lose the entertaining elements I described in the thread about reloading.
point 5 and 6.
Now I'm sure you're going to say 'well what if someone who doesn't know how to remove passwords wants to check a game?' Answer: they send a PM, IM, or email to Case, Darius871, Henrik, Choke, and/or conmcb25.
This is NOT to maintain an 'elite', this is merely to make sure that as few people have the knowledge as possible.
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