Civ 2 tips (for a SMAC player)

[Dimension]

I played Civ 1 when it came out, but that was over 10 years ago. I've played a ton of Alpha Centauri in the past couple years, but now I'm planning on getting Civ 3, so I'm starting to play Civ 2 to try and get the hang of things.

I much prefer the psuedo-history setting of Civ 2 as opposed to the sci-fi setting of Alpha Centauri / Alien Crossfire, but that doesn't really make up for the extra elements in SMAC, especially designing your own units. I'm very glad to hear reviews saying Civ 3 has a lot of aspects of SMAC, even if you can't design your own units. I suppose choosing a weapon/armor/chassis/engine and special abilities for each unit you design wouldn't translate well to Civ 2... although it would be terribly amusing to mount anti-aircraft artillary on a horse chassis.

Anyway, back to my attempt at learning Civ 2. I've noticed that most things are similar. Trade arrows are like energy, Beakers are like labs, Shields are like minerals. Food is like nutrients.

But a few main points seem a lot different. In SMAC, Recycling Tanks simply add +1 nutrients +1 minerals +1 energy to your base square, but in Civ2, a Granary doesn't add any production, it makes your food reserves go right to 50% after your city grows, right? And SMAC has no secret project that gives you Recycling Tanks in every base, but the Pyramids gives you a free Granary in every city, right?

I'm just having trouble finding some good newbie guides for Civ2.

What do you generally build in your cities when you ICS? Anything? If you build the Pyramids, what would you need to build in your individual cities?

In SMAC, you found a city, and while it's at size 1, you can build a defender and a terraforming unit, then you have the terraforming unit go around planting farms (irrigating) and building roads. In SMAC, your terraforming unit doesn't require support, except for 1 mineral (shield) per turn support like a regular unit (and then only if you have more than two units at that base). In SMAC, you build colony pods to found new cities, and each pod you build makes your city population go down one.

In Civ 2, things look much different. You have to build settlers to irrigate your land, and the settlers use up food for support. This all seems very difficult to balance... Doesn't building a settler make your population go down one, too? So what order do I build things in? I want to spread out quickly, but building the granary early seems very important. How many granaries should I build before I focus on the Pyramids and just scrap all the granaries? And of course it seems much more important to spread out early than be building improvements, but with a granary making my city grow twice as fast I don't know. And what about building new cities? I'm sure it's important to irrigate at least the square you're working in a size 1 base so it grows faster, but should the first settler irrigate a square, or just immediately go found a new base?

I'm sure there is a way to do this that is generally agreed as the best method... I need a granary, a settler to found a new city, and a settler to irrigate and build roads, right?

I don't really like having to micromanage more than 10-15 cities. In SMAC, I generally have about 6-7 cities on a normal map, 8-10 on a huge map, and I will pop-boom them all up to size 14-16, then pod-boom my headquarters up to 40, then run a golden age at my HQ while I have supply crawlers bringing in tons of energy (and build all the research SP's there) for tons of tech. I will try to run over my neighbors really fast until they submit, then I give them their cities back (and give them all my tech) to increase trade and have them working as research slaves and act as a buffer to enemies.

Does any of this work in Civ 2? Do caravans work just like supply crawlers? Can you pop-boom all your bases using certain social choices, or is a golden age (we love the president day?) the only way to grow every turn? Can you get other factions in submissive pacts? Can you give them back their cities once you do? I know you can get other factions paying you tribue, and I know caravans are kind of like supply crawlers (and they let you rush SP's) ... but can anybody just break down the differences for me real quick?

What is WL * D? Does that mean we love the president day + democracy? In SMAC, you get:

+2 growth in city for running Democracy
+2 growth in city for running Planned economics
+2 growth in city for building a Childern's Creche in the city
+2 growth in city for having a Golden Age (we love day)

...and as long as a city has +6 growth, it will have a population boom and grow every turn. Is that the way it works in Civ 2? Do you only need +4 growth?

In SMAC, the early game is all about food, the middle-game is all about production, and the late-game is all about science production. Are things pretty similar in Civ 2?

I've heard people say you want 3 trade caravans very early. Why is that? Establishing a trade route early gives you more than later? Is there a limit to how much a city can trade? Can you trade with your own cities? Does it just depend on how far away the other city is? In SMAC, this is completely different, because trade strictly depends on the population of your cities, and you automatically trade with anybody you have a treaty with.

What about the square you found your city on? In SMAC, what kind of square your base is on doesn't matter, and the only bonuses it gets are for energy (trade) and for special bonuses, but flat/hilly/forest/whatever are all the same. Is Civ 2 like that?

Thanks for any tips.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Somebody's going to roll out a mess of answers in a minute, I'm sure, but here are some quickies:

1) Forget the Pyramids and granaries, if you're playing at higher levels (say, King and above). The reason? Growth causes unhappiness, and unhappiness is a b!tch to manage at the higher levels of Civ2.

2) WLT*D has different effects depending on what government you are in. In democracy and republic it increases population, but in monarchy and communism it adds a trade arrow to every square already producing at least one arrow.

3) Food caravans can also be used to pop cities.

4) Trade routes can be established between two of your own cities, though trade routes with foreign cities tend to be worth more. The goal of laying 3 routes down early is that it results in a huge amount of extra gold over the course of the game, and is especially useful in the early stages when gold is harder to come by. But you still want to keep trading after you've got 3 routes in, since you may get better routes and, even if you don't, delivering a caravan gives you a one-time gold and science bonus in addtion to an ongiong route. No matter how many caravans you deliver, however, your city will only have a maximum of 3 ongoing routes.

Don't play SMAC, so I can't answer the comparative questions, but I hope that helps.

[H Tower]

the best way to learn is to play lots and lots of civ2. that's what i did

[La Fayette]

learning civ2

Dimension
Almost anything you wish to know is written in what we call the GL (the special thread on top of the strategy forum). The GL is certainly the best strategy guide available.
If you read the GL and understand it, you will be one of the top players at civ2, but the problem is that it is not easy to understand anything written in the GL without having played a lot of games.
I would advise you to play a small map at easy level (chieftain), then try to read some of the GL, then play a small map at upper level, and so on.
Don't refrain from asking questions. There is someone able to answer almost any question you might ask (though the reasonable answer would be 'read the GL' almost any time).
Good civing.

[Scouse Gits]

[SIZE=1]
1) Forget the Pyramids and granaries, if you're playing at higher levels (say, King and above). The reason? Growth causes unhappiness, and unhappiness is a b!tch to manage at the higher levels of Civ2.

Yes ... agreed and good advice. However, in a recent game I built the Pyramids for the first time in ... well the video looked new! The growth gained was tremendous. For some reason the AI had failed to grab the wonder first. I was near to Democracy and going Sol/Commie at the time so I could absorb the population boost. When those small cities turn to 5 or 6 - you can start using mines and woods to jack the shields up to 10 per turn, which helps pump out caravans.

------------

SG(2)

[Dimension]

Thanks for the replies...

Rufus T. Firefly:

Forget pyramids and granaries on King-Diety? Seriously? Even the most hardcore ICS'er isn't going to leave cities at size 1 ... and with Hanging Gardens, is it really so bad that you actually DON'T want your cities to grow twice as fast with Pyramids?

I suppose if you grow your cities through WLT*D + demo, though, there would be no point in granaries/pyramids... but I don't think you can even have a WLT*D in a size 1 city, and it's a long time before you get republic or democracy.

The inability to convoy resources from any space with a supply crawler is a huge difference with SMAC... It changes so many basic aspects of the game.

La Fayette:

Thanks... I figured there was some big guide that I was missing.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Dimension
Thanks for the replies...

Rufus T. Firefly:

Forget pyramids and granaries on King-Diety? Seriously? Even the most hardcore ICS'er isn't going to leave cities at size 1 ... and with Hanging Gardens, is it really so bad that you actually DON'T want your cities to grow twice as fast with Pyramids?

I don't suppose the Pyramids are that bad; like SG, I recently played a game where I built them unproblematically (I was playing a game where I built all the wonders I ususally ignore and ignored all teh wonders I usually build; it was interesting, but that's another story). But the thing is, the AI competes aggressively for wonders at higher levels, and if you build the Pyramids you risk losing either the Hanging Gardens of the Colossus, both of which are much more valuable. Conversely, by the time you get HG and Colossus built, the Pyramids are generally long gone. At that point there's granaries, but spending a young city's precious gold on them isn't worth it.

You're right, this strategy tends to keep you small until you get republic or democracy, but I tend to play the way you do (micromanaging a small number of cities) and I don't find it problematic.

Incidently, a word on Layfayette's advice: The Great Library thread is terrific, but most of the entries tend to assume a good working knowledge of Civ2. Don't be surprised if you need to come back here to ask more basic questions, and of course don't be shy!

[The Mad Monk]

I normally play civ at King level (I could go higher, but I like to enjoy my games ). I always build pyramids; between garrisons, temples, and the Hanging Gardens, unhappiness is never a problem before size 7 (or so), and you can arrest growth at that point by simply not building aquaducts.

The anti-starvation aspects of pyramids and granaries are too valuable to be ignored, IMHO.