Great battles that changed history

[johnmcd]

I’m not defending the English, just pointing out an important distinction, a distinction that thousands gave their lives to maintain.

My advice would be that, if in doubt, say British (most things of international importance happened after the Union of the Crowns) and be prepared to be gently informed that it was either an English atrocity or a Scottish achievement if you got it wrong, rather than inappropriately dishing everything onto the English as it means we Scots are being forgotten in favour of our larger neighbour, not something we like.

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by johnmcd on 01-25-2001 05:41 AM I would say the Battle of the Somme is of immense importance in showing the horror of mechanised war, revolutionising social relations, fermenting political change and, through the Great War in total, bringing female equality closer.

The somme is an excellent example of the futility of the first world war. 50,000 men killed or wounded in less then an hour chills the mind and darkens the sprit. It's also an excellent example of the narrow minds of the allied high commands in the great war.

[East Street Trader]

The Somme was indeed awful but Verdun is acknowledged as the most bloody of all the first world war battles, 770,000 casualties, I think.

I stand to be corrected but I believe that it is said in France to be a part of the reason that there was no great enthusiasm for the second world war there because of the effect the senseless slaughter at Verdun had on the psyche of the nation.

Some of the early WW1 battles gain yet greater poignancy in the UK because the men who fought were volunteers. The men from many of the northern towns all joined up together and went into the same regiment. They then all went into battle together and such was the carnage in the early trench warfare battles that a number of towns lost all but a handful of its young men on a single day.

Hard to imagine being in Huddersfield or Warrington on the day when telegrams announcing the death of so many were all arriving at once.

I saw a last remnant of the consequence of the carnage in my early years in practice in Canterbury. I noticed that I had quite a few elderly female clients all of whom were genteel, in slightly straitened circumstances, and all of whom were spinsters.

In 1918 it was impossible, if you came from a certain class, to marry outside that class. But the casualty rate among young subalterns - who had to lead their men over the top - was pretty well 100%. So the girls of an entire generation lost their chance of a socially acceptable marriage.

[Chris 62]

For East Street Trader: When speaking about Verdun, it is important to point out that the battle lasted for ten months, but yes, it was the most costly. Your causality total is actually on the low side, but such number crunching is irrelevant. Your point about how poignant it is that the heavest losses were among the volunteers is well taken. This whole war was pointless. We know that the Austrians started it to try to unite their fading empire(Conrad's sickening quote comes to mind: Austria must wage war for political reasons), but what did Imperial Germany hope to gain? They must have understood that their overseas colonies would be lost, and that Britain would not stand aside if the neutrality of Belgium was violated. Hoping for a repeat of the Franco-Prussian war was unrealistic. All the powers seem to have been swept up in a mania of nationalism. This was the most tragic war ever fought, and the women you mention were a tangible example of it.
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited January 25, 2001).]

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-24-2001 05:08 PM 6. Trafalgar (1796) or this is what happens when you let the French command...

For shame, Jay Bee. Trafalgar was fought in october of 1805! Who said: The French adrmiral does not know his bussiness. The fleet is lost.

[Chris 62]

Let's here some others.
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited January 25, 2001).]

[Jay Bee]

quote: For shame, Jay Bee. Trafalgar was fought in october of 1805! Who said: The French adrmiral does not know his bussiness. The fleet is lost.

Aaargh....! I corrected it at almost the same time you posted this! You beat me to the punch for a few seconds

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"Our community extends beyond national frontiers. Whether it is an Argentinian or a Spaniard, a Chilean or a Mexican, we all know as children that our national language is the language of many nations, and that it was born in Spain many centuries ago... without it, our people would not exist"

Octavio Paz, Mexican Writer. Nobel Laureate 1990, Cervantes Prize 1982
[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited January 25, 2001).]

[BeBMan]

Ah, stupid multiple post

[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited January 25, 2001).]

[BeBMan]

[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited January 25, 2001).]

[BeBMan]

[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited January 25, 2001).]

[BeBMan]

490BC, Marathon: Athen´s Phalanx shows the superiority of the heavy armoured Hoplites against the Persians

31BC, Actium: Octavian´s admiral Agrippa destroys the fleets of Kleopatra and M.Antonius, and secures the power for caesar´s successor

732AD, Karl Martell´s victory against the Arabs at Tours and Portiers saves the Christian Europe

1789, Storm on the Bastille (ok, this was no real battle )

And I´m surprised that nobody has mentioned Stalingrad here...


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Civ2000

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 01-25-2001 05:12 PM 490BC, Marathon: Athen´s Phalanx shows the superiority of the heavy armoured Hoplites against the Persians 31BC, Actium: Octavian´s admiral Agrippa destroys the fleets of Kleopatra and M.Antonius, and secures the power for caesar´s successor 732AD, Karl Martell´s victory against the Arabs at Tours and Portiers saves the Christian Europe 1789, Storm on the Bastille (ok, this was no real battle ) And I´m surprised that nobody has mentioned Stalingrad here...

Except for the storming of the bastille, I had all four of these in mind when I started this.

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-25-2001 04:47 PM Aaargh....! I corrected it at almost the same time you posted this! You beat me to the punch for a few seconds

Heh,Heh,Heh...

[Prometeus]

quote: Originally posted by cpoulos on 01-25-2001 05:48 PM Originally posted by BeBro on 01-25-2001 05:12 PM 1789, Storm on the Bastille (ok, this was no real battle )