Merits of inclusion of historical civs in civ

[Anodyne]

Hmm. Well, the biggest fault, I think, is not having the Phoenicians(Well, there are the Carthaginians... but I'd still rather have the 'original' Phoenicians). I think they might be the most important civ that has ever lived in the world. They were the ones who invented the alphabet and writing, greeks learned them from the Phoenicians. They also colonized the whole northern Africa (Carthago was one of their colonies) and the area of Mediterranean sea, and sailed around the whole continent of Africa somewhere around 600B.C. Some say that they sailed as far in north as Scandinavia. Surely, the Greek civilization (and Roman, for that matter), for example, wouldn't have been possible without the Phoenicians.
oh, btw, I think the oldest nation without breaks in the history might be Iran(Persia) or Iraq, at least Persia has been as it is for over 2000 years (No breaks after Alexander the Great, if I remember correctly)
Hmm. Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, Turks(Anatolians?), Assyrians... what else should be needed? Nubians, perhaps. They once conquered the Egypt, did you know? At least they'd be much better than the Zulus. Dacians would be ok, though they were very barbaric... Still, the historicians say that Dacia(Romania nowadays) was perhaps one of the most hard-to-conquer areas.

[Anodyne]

And, oh, yes! I forgot the Incas and Mayans!

And what would you think about an option in the game that you could set your campaigns to include "ancient" or more modern civs?? So, if you have the 'ancient' mode on, you wouldn't have the English, French, Germans or Spanish but instead Normans, Gauls, Goths, and Iberians, etc...?? Hmm. Perhaps this would make a good thread in CivIII-section...

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Ade on 01-21-2001 08:41 PM Hmm. Now I came to think about the change of my sources being wrong, since they said that Phoenicia existed from 3000BC to about year 0... ok, I'll shut up for this matter, until I find more accurate information. For now, I guess I can admit cpoulos being right.

It's not often that I'm right, so i'll take it! But just the same, you keep right on sending your opinions on things. If nothing else, it makes for fun discussion.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

And now, 2 cents from the guy who "inspired" this thread by claiming (foolishly, stupidly, with an eye only on empire size) that the Germans didn't belong on the list. What the heck was I thinking?

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and agree with those of you who would dump the Sioux, but I would replace them with the Iroquois. Has anyone suggested this yet? Unlike the Sioux, the Iroquois had fairly permanent settlements, a tight internal organization and even made a major contribution to world civ -- there seems to be evidence that the American Founders lifted at least some of the U.S. Constitution from governing documents of the Iroquois confederacy. Plus, they were in the process agressively expanding their empire by "assimilating" other tribes (check out their war against the Huron, for example) when the Europeans showed up and provided an ultimately-too-formidible enemy.

And, to take us back to teh original topic of this thread, I'd especially like to see the Ottomans included; this seems a major oversight, and there's not even a convincing "substitute" civ, a la Carthage/Phonecia, Rome/Byzantium, etc. My pet desire is Anatolian as well: the inclusion of the Hittites.

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 01-22-2001 05:08 AM And Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and agree with those of you who would dump the Sioux, but I would replace them with the Iroquois. Has anyone suggested this yet? And, to take us back to teh original topic of this thread, I'd especially like to see the Ottomans included; this seems a major oversight, and there's not even a convincing "substitute" civ, a la Carthage/Phonecia, Rome/Byzantium, etc. My pet desire is Anatolian as well: the inclusion of the Hittites.

Why not the whole six nations? It seems people forget that the eastern tribes were more advanced then the western ones. I agree with the ottomans also, but I think the persians are as close as you get in this game. I should run a thread like this for civ3. And yes Mr. president, you were the inspiration for this!

[Everyman]

This is a bit off the subject but does anyone happen to know if Civ II is big in Korea?

PC games in general are a huge phenomenon in Korea -- I understand they even have PC game "Olympics."

Anyway, the Age of Kings expansion pack released several months ago included a Korea civilization, historical significance notwithstanding, mainly to endear the game to Korean gamers and capitalize on the lucrative Korean PC game market.

In other words, if Civ III includes a Korean civilization, then we'll know that the publishers have succumbed to marketing pressures.

[Jay Bee]

quote: Originally posted by cpoulos on 01-21-2001 06:35 PM For ade one more time: Phoenicia existed from 1600BC to just before 1 AD, so could not have influenced greece. There were also greek colonies in spain.(Ask jay bee about it in the spanish forum)

Better than that, play my "Of Celts and Iberians" scenario

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-22-2001 02:05 PM Better than that, play my "Of Celts and Iberians" scenario

I have, and I love It!

[lord of the mark]

instead of the sioux, i'd prefer the "mound-builders" the most advanced native culture in US area, unfortunately died out (of Spanish diseases) in 16thc, prior to direct European contact. Unlike the Sioux they did build cities. And, AFAIK, they had much larger area than southwestern Pueblos. They would start at a different position then the Sioux on world maps, in missippi valley instead of Great Plains.
Intersting to look at mound-builder vs. Aztec possibilities.

Celts - were becoming heavily influenced by contact with Greek colony at Marseilles prior to Carthie and Roman expansions. Alt history possibility of a hellenized Gaul.

Israelites, like Phoenicians (to whom they were very close linguistically and culturally if not religiously) can use Carthies as sub. Real concern of course is starting position, slightly different for Phoienies and Hebrews, very different for Carthies.
In particular would be interesting to play out historical impact of their key location, at junction of land and sea routes.

[Bereta_Eder]

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 01-22-2001 05:08 AM I'd especially like to see the Ottomans included;

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you are turkish now would it?

Just joking. As I said before, Ottomans should be in.
Hey we re-write history: Constantinople would never have fallen, the greek revolution would never have happened! Everyone's happy

[Rufus T. Firefly]

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 on 01-22-2001 06:15 PM This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you are turkish now would it?

Actually, I'm an American teaching in Ankara. But when in Rome...(or something like that)

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[popcornvendor]

hey, yall are forgetting a big influence on history: the BARBARIANS!!!! i know there not a civ, but i replaced the zulu with the barbarians. i plan to replace alot of other civs too

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Enjoy the war while you can, the peace will be terrible

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by popcornvendor on 01-23-2001 09:11 PM hey, yall are forgetting a big influence on history: the BARBARIANS!!!! i know there not a civ, but i replaced the zulu with the barbarians. i plan to replace alot of other civs too

All of modern europe ARE the barbarians!!!

[Bereta_Eder]

«var, var, var»

[popcornvendor]

hehehehehe *acts suspicious* its the french's fault! i know its them!!

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Enjoy the war while you can, the peace will be terrible