Column #111; By Earthling7

[DanQ]

TITLE: "<A HREF="http://apolyton.net/misc/column/111_walk.shtml">How To Run Before You Walk</A>"
SYNOPSIS: Earthing7 conveys why he will not by CivIII, but not CTPII.
Comments/questions welcomed here.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[MarkG]

so Earthling7, if by pure fate(cause it seems to me that only a few people had a similat problem with ctp) a bug that would not let you play the game existed in smac as well, you would not buy civ3 as well?

[Sirotnikov]

Earthling7, I had the same experience with CTP. And it wasn't even a legal version. Just imagine the joy of downloading 150 MBs over my 33.6Kb modem just to find out they don't work.

I got another version 2 months later and it was crappy, crashed alot, and most important of all boring.

I always download games before I buy them so I won't get burned. I bought games that were good and I liked.

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I have not signature. How do you like that?

[Sieve Too]

quote: And it wasn't even a legal version. Just imagine the joy of downloading 150 MBs over my 33.6Kb modem just to find out they don't work.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for a thief who suddenly discovers that he stole something worthless?

quote: I always download games before I buy them so I won't get burned.

And by violating the copywrite, you rob the creators of the sale price, some of which can be used to fix the very bugs you complain about. No sales = no money to reinvest into the game.

Stop portraying yourself as a victim when you are really a part of the problem.

[Ming]

Just one question... No mention of Civ Gold MPE? Did you buy it? If not... you should.
It has brought Civ back to life for me. And you know, If CivIII stinks, at least I still have the MP version of CivII

[Gearyman]

I purchased CTP after waiting for prices to drop and a rebate was offered from Sam's Wholesale.

I've mentioned in other places as well that I too was not impressed with CTP. I've never finished a game. Although I still have it installed, I do not have the desire (like Earthing7 mentioned) to return to CTP like I do with Civ II.

I must admit that there are several concepts implemented in CTP that I did like. Graphics were better (to be expected), stacking was cool, the way the settler shows the squares a city would take up (before settling the city) was nice, and the Public Works option was interesting.

Other parts of the game were not so 'cool'. But it boils down to this with me--I'll buy CTP2 (maybe) after being able to see a demo or someone else playing it. I'll not spend another $40-$60 on a game that I'll only play once.

[WarVoid]

I was very dissappointed with CtP.
And I paid $62.95 for the ***** thing. :mad
It could have been so much more...
And if CivIII stinks I quit.
I'm going to write my own dang version of the game.

[Slingshot]

This sounds like a funeral.

Are any of you encouraged by the fact that some Actigrammers are coming out of the woodwork these days?

Maybe we could think about questions for them. The Ogre has stated that more feedback will come after E3, which is in early May. Hopefully this means that there will be enough time to have a greater impact on the final product.

We could say things like:
- what it would take to make us buy CTP2 for $60
- what they absolutely must fix

I've got a pile of suggestions for new polls. Let's work on them and make certain that the only reason CTP2 sucks is because they didn't listen to us.

[KhanMan]

Slingshot-If this is the funeral of CtPII, then I, for one, am all for throwing a party to celebrate. From time to time, I've thought about buying CtP I, what I saw from a friend playing it, and all the bugs, makes it worthless in my eyes.

I am fed up with the idea that, if we release the same product with one or two new features, we get a new game. I mean, we already have MGE, CtP I, and ToT, and none contain the features of the others.

So why should I buy CtP II, and encourage Activision to stay greedy, and never release another descent sequel to Civ II? We don't need MGE II, CtP II, or ToT II, we need one good, well thoughtout sequel to them all, or I'm not buying another Civ-sequel.

Finished Rantin'
-KhanMan

[MarkG]

why do you need one sequel in the whole civ genre? what's wrong with options? what wrong with competition?

[Slingshot]

Apolytoners seem most happy when there is a new sequel to look forward to.

Once again, MarkG, you hit the nail on the head.

[caglenn]

I agree with you on almost all counts, except I'm not quite so harsh toward CTP. I still play it once in awhile, just because the graphics are so much better than CivII and it has some fairly decent gameplay features. However, it will never really stand as one of the Civ classics, as far as I'm concerned. It was a good attempt, but it lacked that certain Meiresque quality...that endless playability, maybe? Hard to put your finger on it. I won't rush out to buy CTPII either, but I'll keep an open mind and give it a chance if it gets good reviews at Apolyton.

Regards,
CG

[DirkZelwis]

Hello!
To MarkG: I want *one* sequel, too, because I want a game that covers *all* possible enhancements. If I buy a car, I don't want to pay "extra" for windows, passenger seats, or spare wheel. And if I decide to change from my beloved "car one" to "car two", I expect it to not only have new colour, but better safety, less fuel consumption, and such. *And* I don't want to pay for each "improvement" seperately.
Do you really need soemone to tell you, what's wrong with competion? "Company A" wants to get their software out before "Company B", so they cut out the playtesting. Or leave it to Apolyton, or whoever buys the game first. This one came without thinking. Next one with 5 sec.: "Company A" has the best graphics programmer, "Company B" the best sound programmer, "Company C" the best debuggers. So you, the buyer, get 3 mediocre (at best) games, instead of the best game. Capitalism was a good idea ... 300 years ago. Competition was a good idea ... 2500 years ago (remember olympus?).
More arguments needed? I can think of some.
Bye for now, Dirk
"Dirks and Daggers.
Sharp to the point."

[The Mad Monk]

Dirk: please elaborate on your non-competitive system of choice, and how it would provide more and better games.

[MarkG]

DirkZelwis,

quote: I expect it to not only have new colour, but better safety, less fuel consumption, and such. *And* I don't want to pay for each "improvement" seperately

that's "you". what about everyone else? how do you define what everyone needs? how do you make sure you satisfy everyone?

quote: "Company A" wants to get their software out before "Company B", so they cut out the playtesting.

in that case set certain standards of quality for the product. dont eliminate competition

quote: "Company A" has the best graphics programmer, "Company B" the best sound programmer, "Company C" the best debuggers

there are plenty of good programmers and designers out there...