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  • Civ 2 Standard Changes

    Hello everyone,

    There are a few simple changes I think everyone should make in Civ 2.
    Firstly, replacing the Sioux Civ with the Incas. I think this is a real no-brainer: the Incas were historically more advanced and important, and in my opinion more interesting too. Furthermore this is better for geographical balance. I'm also thinking about replacing the Carthaginians with something else, maybe the Dutch.
    I also replace the SETI Program wonder with the Internet (which should also require computers and is more important, and if it's not a wonder it at least deserves its own tech). A disadvantage here is that the icon would be wrong but that can be edited too.
    I also replace that ghastly purple shield color (seventh civ) in city.gif with a nice dark grey. After all, how could I ever respect a purple civ?
    I've also changed all rulers in rules.txt to male rulers and replaced "she" with "he" etc. in labels.txt. This solves the problem of having to think of a female leader for each (new) civ; I also think it's much nicer to play against Augustus than Livia, for example (I don't know of any civ where I would choose a female leader as one of the two most important/interesting ones).
    Since it's ridiculous to have alpine troops defending cities, I changed their defense value to 4 and their attack value to 6. I also added a "Heavy Infantry" unit for city defense (ADM 7/5/1) (Heavy Weapons tech requires conscription and machine tools).

    Actually I've made much more extensive changes than these but I think these ones are quite simple changes and I really don't think there's a reason not to make them.
    Anyway, if anyone has comments or other ideas, please reply.

    Emperor Oogkloot the Somewhat Acceptable

  • #2
    quote:

    Originally posted by Dr.Oogkloot on 07-27-2000 07:08 AM
    I'm also thinking about replacing the Carthaginians with something else, maybe the Dutch.


    What !?
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    quote:

    I don't know of any civ where I would choose a female leader as one of the two most important/interesting ones.


    Victoria, Catherine the Great, Cleopatra, Boadicea, Gunnhild and Dido spring to mind...

    ------------------
    Hasdrubal's Home.
    Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.
    [This message has been edited by Hasdrubal (edited July 27, 2000).]
    Hasdrubal's Home.
    Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

    Comment


    • #3
      In modern times, Thatcher (however much one may hate her conservative politics), Cori Aquino of the Philippines, Bandaranaike of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), "Ang San Su Chi" (phonetically transcribed, check spelling later) of Burma, Mary Robinson of Ireland and NZ has one currently (Janet something?)

      AFAIK the US never had a female President or they may already be having a de facto one in Hillary?

      Comment


      • #4
        And Golda Mier, Indira Ghandi, Pakistan had one for a while also.

        Tonic, Legend, and maybe fact also, has it that during President Wilson's stroke that his wife was actually making the decision in his name. The general public just wasn't informed of his condition.

        Ken

        Comment


        • #5
          Hasdrubal, Chill man!!!!! you're starting to sound like a bleedin' feminist!!!!!

          But i have to say that you should have the female world leaders, especially Boadicia!! Have you seen her daughters? Woof!!! Now, anyone who can produce children looking like that, should definitely have their own nation!!!!
          "There are not more than 5 musical notes..." - Sun Tzu
          ...and we build an Academy for this guy... :confused:

          Comment


          • #6
            Oldman, yeah, welsh girls are great. Well, all one of them that I know personally are.
            Oh, and I don't really care what anybody says about former woman-rulers. But don't nobody dare take Carthage out of the game! Grrr!

            OK, let's give Oogkloot's post the serious reply that it deserves:

            quote:

            Firstly, replacing the Sioux Civ with the Incas.


            I've done that also! I agree.

            quote:

            I'm also thinking about replacing the Carthaginians.


            Uhm, like I said in my previous post...


            quote:

            I also replace the SETI Program wonder with the Internet


            Makes a lot of sense. I think that Civ is showing it's age here. We can probably expect the internet making an appearance in Civ III.

            quote:

            I also replace that ghastly purple shield color.


            That's a matter of taste. I like purple, it's the colour of kings and Prince. (the artist formerly known as 'symbol')

            quote:

            I've also changed all rulers in rules.txt to male rulers


            Everybody's been over this one already. Some female rules that appear in the game seem a bit forced indeed, and are really only there to provide players with the option of playing as a woman. (Livia, and, uh... oh well, they're not important anyway).

            quote:

            Since it's ridiculous to have alpine troops defending cities, I changed their defense value to 4 and their attack value to 6.


            Alpine troops suck! When you make use of their one redeeming factor, moving through heavy terrain, they hardly have any attack value left. Maybe their movement factor should be changed to two. Then you can still attack after you're done skiing through the countryside.

            ------------------
            Hasdrubal's Home.
            Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.
            Hasdrubal's Home.
            Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

            Comment


            • #7
              quote:

              Originally posted by Ken Hinds on 07-28-2000 01:17 AM
              Tonic, Legend, and maybe fact also, has it that during President Wilson's stroke that his wife was actually making the decision in his name. The general public just wasn't informed of his condition.



              Yes, they say behind every successful man there is a woman on whose shoulders he could relieve the burdens of the outside world. The converse seems to apply too - where would Margaret Thatcher be without supportive, homely hubby?

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:

                I'm also thinking about replacing the Carthaginians with something else, maybe the Dutch.


                A very wise thought. Male should be "William III" I think, female should be "Wilhelmina", or if you choose a second male instead of female "William the Silent" (Willem de Zwijger). And make their titles under republic "Stadtholder" (Stadhouder), under Democracy "Minister-President". Under fundy it should be "Bisschop" (Bischop), under Despotism "Duke" (Graaf).

                And the colour is already good, orange. Just take some cities from an atlas and add them in the cities.txt too.

                and then the game múst be perfect.

                Comment


                • #9
                  droogkloot, nu begrijp ik je naam trouwens pas.


                  cool

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the Carthaginians should stay, but the Americans should go, replaced by Arabs, or possibly Turks, though the Babylonians and Persians arguably have that covered. Maybe Bantus, or the previouly mentioned Incas.

                    Anything but Americans. Why? It offends my sense of history. Americans (of which I am one) are an offshoot of the English, and (in game terms) a late offshoot at that. The starting tribes should represent cultures that have at least several thousand years of history behind them.

                    Of course, that's just my opinion...
                    No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:

                      Originally posted by Hasdrubal on 07-27-2000 07:58 AM
                      Victoria, Catherine the Great, Cleopatra, Boadicea, Gunnhild and Dido spring to mind...




                      I use Churchill instead of Victoria, Lenin instead of C. the Great, Vercingetorix instead of Boadicea, Leif Eriksson instead of Gunnhild (not a very good one I admit), and Hasdrubal (the ancient leader, not you) instead of Dido (isn't Dido completely fictional anyway? I could be wrong there though)

                      Some counter-examples (reasons to change labels.txt and rules.txt)
                      Ishtari, Amaterasu and Nazca are goddesses not leaders IIRC (I use Nebukhadnezar, Hirohito and Cuauhtemoc respectively), and therefore not at all appropriate for Civ2. I already mentioned Livia (there are about two hundred leaders I'd put there before her). IIRC Hippolyta wasn't even Greek.

                      And I'll give you my reasons for changing the Carthaginians to the Dutch: firstly, as Allard said, the orange color fits them better; secondly, I'm Dutch myself; thirdly, the Carthaginians tend to behave like bastards in Civ 2; fourthly: nothing personal Hasdrubal but I just don't like Carthaginians.

                      Emperor Oogkloot the Somewhat Acceptable, One-Man Civilization and Bouncing Corpse (not really but I think it sounds nice)

                      PS If anyone reading this has not replaced Sioux with Incas please post here, I'd like to know why not.
                      PPS The Celts are another candidate to be edited out IMO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        D'oh Double-Posted again
                        [This message has been edited by Dr.Oogkloot (edited July 29, 2000).]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:

                          Originally posted by tonic on 07-27-2000 08:41 PM
                          In modern times, Thatcher (however much one may hate her conservative politics), Cori Aquino of the Philippines, Bandaranaike of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), "Ang San Su Chi" (phonetically transcribed, check spelling later) of Burma, Mary Robinson of Ireland and NZ has one currently (Janet something?)



                          I never use any of these civilizations except for the English, and for the English I use Henry/Churchill/Cromwell (don't remember which two of the three)

                          Dr.Oogkloot
                          Look I'm a NONE Settler!



                          ------------------
                          "Mijn diepste gevoelens zitten zo diep dat ik ze niet eens voel"
                          - Bert Vanderslagmulders

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by Dr.Oogkloot on 07-29-2000 06:31 PM
                            isn't Dido completely fictional anyway?


                            Dido is a true historical character. Even though most stories surrounding her are myth or fiction (Virgil), there is no doubt that she did indeed exist and founded Carthage.

                            quote:

                            the Carthaginians tend to behave like bastards


                            Go Carthage! There used to be a lot of sayings about Cartaginians in Ancient times. One of them made it into English: A Carthaginian Peace -> a peace with particular harsh conditions on the defeated party.

                            quote:

                            I just don't like Carthaginians.





                            As for great female rulers: again, history is up to its 'eyeballs' with fine examples.

                            ------------------
                            Hasdrubal's Home.
                            Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.
                            [This message has been edited by Hasdrubal (edited July 29, 2000).]
                            Hasdrubal's Home.
                            Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by Dr.Oogkloot on 07-29-2000 06:31 PM
                              PS If anyone reading this has not replaced Sioux with Incas please post here, I'd like to know why not.
                              PPS The Celts are another candidate to be edited out IMO


                              ***

                              Dr. Oogkloot:

                              Well, I haven't replaced the Sioux with the Incas. Why? Because I really don't feel like it. Besides, IMHO, the Sioux are supposed to representative of the North American tribes in general. Also, I think the Aztecs are supposed to represent Central and South American cultures in general.

                              **shrug** Whatever floats your boat, though. That's what makes Civ II such a joy to play — its accessibility and ability to alter things is amazing (unlike C:CTP).

                              CYBERAmazon

                              "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                              "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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