ZERO trade

[shade]

Now I really am confused,I knew that foodcaravans give sometimes 0 trade arrows for a traderoute(I learend to live with that)
But in the game I'm playing now I sometimes get those 0-trade arrow-traderoutes for real trade-stuff????
(How Is this possible???)
->the trade always is between cities of my own(since I can't trust the AI)

Shade

[Gramphos]

The cities are too close.

[shade]

cities that are closer gave me arrow(s).

so guess not

Shade

[Eyn]

economy

if u export silk to a nearby city who also trade silk don't be surprise if u don't earn money !

[La Fayette]

zero trade

shade
The commonly admitted formula for the value of trade routes has been given long ago by Robert Lancaster (you can find it in the GL, read 'Scrolls of Wisdom').
This formula is:
(THC + TDC +4)/8
where THC = Trade in the Home City
and TDC = Trade in the Destination City
This means that if your city has 2 trade arrows and the foreign city where you deliver your caravan also has 2 trade arrows, the value of the trade route is (2+2+4)/8 = 1
But this value is halved if both cities are yours.
Therefore, if you trade between your own cities in the early game, it is not uncommon to get zero trade routes (but the value will grow when your cities grow, later on).

[La Fayette]

BTW shade
as you can see when looking at the formula, the distance between the 2 cities has no influence at all on the value of the trade route (contrary to what gramphos told you).
But the distance has an influence on the value of the delivery bonus (the gold and BEAKERS that you receive on delivery; the 'scrolls of wisdom' in the GL also tell you that).

[shade]

thx La Fayette that could be a reason(don't know how many arrows there were)
btw how does that GL actually work???

Eyn: Duhhhh,I'm not entirely retarded,the shipments went to cities that DEMANDED them.

Shade

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by shade
btw how does that GL actually work???
Shade

Second thread on the strategy forum (the first thread is a discussion about improving the GL).
Click: anything is explained.

IMO anyone willing to post on the strategy forum should HAVE A LOOK AT THE GL FIRST (since most of the questions that might be asked have already an answer, easy to find in the GL)

[shade]

well that was the part I knew,the only problem is that it's quite Chaotic to find something through those threads/posts.
(I wasn't sure anymore why I never try to search it,so I went back to take a look,now I know again.)
All info might be included there but it's kind of a nightmare going through those threads.
IMHO there must be a better way to save all that info.Maybe someone should take the time to go through all those threads and condence all real info out of them.
(ie less chaotic and easier to search)
Also I found the trade formula in the scrolls of wisdom:

Trade = ( trade of home city + trade of destination city + 4 ) / 8

Note that it does not directly depend on city size or distance. The following (cumulative) modifiers apply:

Both cities are yours -50%
Freight instead of caravan +50%
Cities connected by road +50%
Cities connected by rail +50%
Cities on different continents +100%
Airports in both cities +50%
Superhighways in home city +50%

=> now lets put in my info
1)all cities are conected with roads=>+50%
2)It were all my cities=>-50%
3)Some where on different Continents=>+100%
the only thing there is not talked about is if those numbers are rounded up or down
If rounded up even 2 cities without trade arrows would get 1 arrow=>((0+0+4)/8)-50%+50%(these 2 cancel oneanother out)
=1/2 rounded up=1

So there still seems to be a problem

Shade

[La Fayette]

1) About the GL being easy to read
When I came to Apolyton, there was no GL yet and I read ALL the archive before posting my first post (took me 3 weeks!).
IMO spending a few hours to discover how the GL works is really a rewarding investment (and some people have done exactly what you wish, namely test almost everything and write down the main results; read 'diplos and spies' or 'the lone settler at work', for example).
2) About rounding up or down
AFAIK there is no rounding at all.
For example: (5 + 5 + 4) = 14
14 is less than 16
Hence a trade route between 2 of your own cities with 5 trade arrows each has a value of 0 (if there are no other modifiers at work)

[shade]

LF:I think you are a brave person,going through those archives.
Maybe some day (when I have time,ie not so soon) I will go through some of those threads and get the info out and compile this to something quick to use.

about the rounding, I'm quite sure there must be.
I had quite some trade early-on and all of them gave 1 arrow in each city(except for those trading with that one city)
and that was only for 1 of the 3 traderoutes,each new traderoute made the previous one become one??

I really need to take a better look at that.

thx for the help LF

Shade

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by shade
All info might be included there but it's kind of a nightmare going through those threads.
IMHO there must be a better way to save all that info.Maybe someone should take the time to go through all those threads and condence all real info out of them.
(ie less chaotic and easier to search)
Shade

Go on! Build your own "condensed" thread. There are only three now: Combat, Dips/spies and Settlers/Engineers.
"The Great Library: a hierarchical structure"

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Don't always assume rounding of numbers in programming! Often, decimals will get truncated - even 0.9 gets passed on as 0. This is usually just "display" value, the real value is retained for any calculations.

[shade]

Originally posted by SlowThinker

Go on! Build your own "condensed" thread.

It's on my to do list,but it low priority and the other items are BIG.
(I think by the time civ IV is out i'll get to it )

(display values are most of the time rounded values,but now you say,If they just use integer-math the solution is truncated )


Shade

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
Often, decimals will get truncated - even 0.9 gets passed on as 0. This is usually just "display" value, the real value is retained for any calculations.

Thank you Marquis.
This is exactly what I tried to explain, but your english is much better than mine (even with that kind of slightly strange accent...Minnesota?)
If you truncate civ 2.99, guess what you get.