Creating short term goals

[sboog]

In another thread, Dr. Fell suggested to me a good way to learn to play Civ2. He suggested setting short term goals - not worrying about winning or having a long game. But setting certain objectives to accomplish in a short game. Then setting another goal, etc.

I am excited about this approach, and I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for some of the goals and the steps toward those goals.

I got overwhelmed with OCC. I'm not ready for that yet.

I really want to learn this game, but I need to do it by taking certain steps toward a goal - then setting another goal - until I get a feel for some of the intricacies of the game.

Please offer some suggestions to me about what some good first goals might be and the paths that might lead to them.

Have any of you ever taken this approach?

I repeat: at this point I am not interested in winning a long game. But learning a little bit at the time.

Thanks.
sboog

[Albert B]

The best short-term goals for the beginning player, like yourself, are generally military goals. Once you have founded a few cities and have met the local natives (i.e. you closest AI civ), pick a couple cities and develop a plan to capture them.

The plan should include research paths that lead to stronger military units, producing the units you will need for the conquest and developing the land between you nations (namely build roads toward their cities to speed up the movement of your troups).

Early in the game it should be easy to make peace with the rival civ and practice your diplomacy skills (trading techs, etc). A good early strategy to learn with is to make peace and trade techs while working on developing bronze working and then mathematics. Once you have mathematics, stop trading techs and build several catapults and a few phalanx. March your army to surround the target city and then declare war on your neighbor and capture the city.

Continue building military units and capture a couple more cities. Also, continue researching military techs to keep the advantage of military might over your opponent(s).

After you have conquered all or at least most of that civs cities, move on to short-term goal #2. Start improving your original and newly acquired cities. Build some granaries, marketplaces, temples, libraries, maybe a wonder or 2.

You will later learn that there are better tech paths and more effecient ways to accomplish such goals, but as you stated, you are looking for basic, simple goals.

As one hint of what you can look to do in the future, go for monarchy pre-reqs and monarchy itself before looking to develop military might. Also, as you get a better feel for the game, begin working on both goals simultaneously.

One last tip, try not to read too much info from this board too soon. One of the best parts about Civ is discovering all the intracacies of the game yourself. I do strongly recomend reading the manual (or at least keep the advisors turned on) so that you aren't missing out on some key feature/tool available to you. However, if you read too much here early on, you will gain a lot of knowledge but miss out on finding some of this stuff on your own. Civ is one awesome game once you get into it, but until you do, follow the advice given to everyone at an alchoholics anonymous meeting: "KEEP COMING BACK!"

[sboog]

Thanks, Albert. I WILL keep coming back.

I like your idea to start with a military goal. Will see what I can do about building up and capturing a city.

Thanks for all of your good ideas. All of this makes more sense to me than my trying to jump in and mindlessly swim with no short term goals along the way.

sboog

[rah]

sboog,
I suggest something more basic. I have use this to help people gear up for MP.

The two earliest goals should be Monarchy and Growth.

Now please keep in mind that these goals are based on 2x production and deity with no starting techs. so you will have to modify them a bit.

Modest goal one.
Be in Monarchy by 2850 bc
Two
4 cities by 3000 bc
Three
8 cities by 2000 bc

Keep restarting and playing the first 2000 years until you can meet these simple goals. Once you can attain them 75% of the time, you will have learned the game mechanics well enough to well exceed these goals in 50% of your games. The knowledge you learn to accomplish these will give you a great basis for the rest of the game. You too can laugh at the pathetic AI.


RAH

[sboog]

RAH, I have been working on the goals you gave me. I got to Monarchy at 2940BC. But only had 5 cities at 2000BC.

I felt I needed more settlers to build all the extra cities. But the three I had were building roads, etc and were not movable.

And I ended up with 11 military - and on the island like map I had, after they had found several huts, they just seemed to move aimlessly with nothing to do. And couldn't get off the island. I didn't know what to do with them!

I can see this is a good way to get into the game.

I have a LOT to learn!

sboog

[jake03]

I usually set "city Goals" I will take one city and see how many beakers I can get and one city and set how many sheilds I can get and so on

[Crustacian]

Familiartiy with units was one of my goals in a similar effort. Although this was in the Civ 1 setting it still can be a way to become familiar with the units of Civ 2.

I limited myself to 1 to 3 cities and provoked trouble with the AI opponants to encourage conflict. You can not only hone up on your defense strategies, but after dozens or hundreds of battles per unit type, you can also see how effective each one is in a given situation.

Also things like is making vet units always a practical idea...

For example is it worth and what will you need in order to win a decisive battle or war against an opponant in a given situation?

Like if they are defending with two non vet musketeers, how many crusaders, or ironclads, or musketeers.... will it take to asure you do not fail to capture a city. But it is never completely predictable since some units are lost incredibly easy while others for no other reason than chance, seem indistructable.

[rah]

sboog, you're getting the idea. In the first 2000 years, a few roads are fine, but those settlers could have created cities. Then those cities could have created settlers that could do a little more improvements. Good on Monarchy, the extra production/trade/ and less corruption really makes a difference.

Since your date didn't end in 50 or 00 I assume you weren't playing in deity. Start playing in deity. Playing at the lower levels can teach you bad habits. All the city happiness levels change by dificulty, you might as well get used to the worst.

RAH

[KrazyHorse]

Sorry to contradict a master, rah, but don't start by playing in Deity. Learn what you can build and what you can't at the lower levels. The only one that will really teach a bad habit is Chieftain, with its free switching between production types. Once you figure out the general strategies of the game, move up level by level. I usually play on King, even though I've been able to beat the game on Deity/Raging Hordes since about three months after I got the game. Above Warlord, each difficulty level is only a matter of scale. You'll find that your units get weaker and weaker, that your people get more and more unhappy, and that the computer keeps up better in the tech race. The difficulty levels are there for a reason.

[rah]

I stand firm in my recommendation. Play deity and it get over it. You need to learn the happiness levels in all the governments. Why keep relearning then every time you advance a level? Many things will work at the lower levels but not at deity. Why waste time learning those things just to be frustrated when they don't on deity. It's not till deity that the impact of trade arrows becomes much more important. It's critical that you learn how to use them early. Otherwise you're just sloppy. (a generalization not meant to be picked apart by the other more experienced players)

I played my first ever game on deity and got my ass kicked. I won the second game.

The lower levels teach you bad habits and gives you a false sense of security.

Why should you have to learn how to win on each individual level when you can just learn it once. (even if it takes a little longer)

RAH

Anyone can learn to beat the AI, the real opponents are other people, and they're not very forgiving. Set your GOALS HIGH.

[jake03]

Why should you have to learn how to win on each individual level when you can just learn it once. (even if it takes a little longer)

RAH

Anyone can learn to beat the AI, the real opponents are other people, and they're not very forgiving. Set your GOALS HIGH. [/QUOTE]

__________________________________________________ ___

Boy I am with Krazy Horse on this one. This game is considered entertainment for some people, not a training problem. And you should play on the level you find entertaining

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by jake03

Why should you have to learn how to win on each individual level when you can just learn it once. (even if it takes a little longer)

RAH

Anyone can learn to beat the AI, the real opponents are other people, and they're not very forgiving. Set your GOALS HIGH.

Boy I am with Krazy Horse on this one. This game is considered entertainment for some people, not a training problem. And you should play on the level you find entertaining

Yeah, but -- i played the game at about the Prince level and it was one of many games I played -- then, due partly to this board, I mastered Deity - and now it is the computer game I play

[jake03]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits


Yeah, but -- i played the game at about the Prince level and it was one of many games I played -- then, due partly to this board, I mastered Deity - and now it is the computer game I play

Yeah and that is cool SG all I am saying is it is just a game. If I have a bad day I can go home and crank the level down a bit and just crush AI troops just for fun. And if you aren't haveing fun what's the point. If you are having fun then you are on the correct level

[sboog]

I'm going for the Deity level. And you know something, at least when I get my a** kicked I'll know someone else is there!

All this wandering and building at Chieftain I feel so "alone." And when I do bump into some opposition, I get rewarded for my "valor." Doesn't make much sense. And I just never feel there is another soul really there. Like I'm in a vacuum. (Not much better than playing the Tutorial over and over...)

So even though I know I am going to get slaughtered, I believe on Deity the game will come alive for me!

Thanks all.

Will keep you posted on how it went.

sboog

[rah]

WAY TO GO, good luck.

Now someone made a comment about fun. I'll concede that one, BUT easily winning is not what I consider fun. It's fun to get your ass kicked almost to extinction and then rise out of the ashes to win. It's fun to get beat when the AI launches after you but beats you there. (i'm guessing on that one since it never happened to me) For me, games are like life, I want the challange. I would never LET my daughter win. When she wins, she knows I tried my best and she truely accomplished something of value. (shows how competitive our family is)

But you're right, pople should play for enjoyment, and if they have fun womping a pathetic AI at the easiest setting, then more power to them. I'll get my satisfaction a different way. Which for now is MP, the true challange. If not for MP, I would have stopped playing this game 3 years ago.


RAH