Announcement

**Ken Hinds** · December 16, 2000, 17:54

I'm not up on the latest theories for 1 and 2, therefore I will let someone else answer thoses.

Item 3. When looking at F6 (your advances) white means that you were the first to discover that advance. Blue is the default(normal) color. When looking at an opponent's advances (F3, check Intelligence) the white are those that You do not have and can trade for or steal. Blue is the normal color again.

Item 4. Yes you can get advances from huts without the prerequisits. Just like you can steal them without having the required techs.

Ken

**Scouse Gits** · December 17, 2000, 03:16

KEN - your comment on Item 4 above is wrong.

You MUST have the prerequisites for any science obtained from a hut.

Think about it! If you didn't need the prerequisites you would have stupid situations. If at 4000BC you pop a hut and get Invention ... no more science from villages. The game designers don't want your first wonder to be Leo's either!

-----------------

SG (2)

**Paul** · December 17, 2000, 04:33

To answer your second question: the number of beakers is based on how many advances you have already discovered (not including free techs at game start), difficulty level and how far you are ahead of (or behind) the AI. I don't have a formula for it and I don't know if one exists.

**Ken Hinds** · December 17, 2000, 07:16

SG(2),

Maybe I just haven't paid enough attention, but I'm sure that I've gotten things like Currency and Map Making without having Bronze or Alphabet. I don't normally find things like Philosophy, Monarchy or Literacy in hut anyway.

Ken

**Cam** · December 17, 2000, 08:59

Sorry - my experience is the same as Ken's (n.b. I use Fantastic Worlds vers.) - I've certainly got advances in huts without having the prerequisites.

**Scouse Gits** · December 17, 2000, 11:48

I seldom play version 2.78, so I ran a few hut tests. As far as I tell it behaves the same as 2.42 and MPGE.

A game on a Large World was tested playing Romans/Hordes/Deity. Starting techs were Masonry and Bronze. Both settlers opened huts on the same turn during 3800BC. In all 20 Scrolls were recorded - none had different prerequisites from science already discovered. One turn both settlers found wisdom. The first one was Currency, but the second was Construction - this seemed to emphasise my point that once Currency was in F6 Construction was possible.

The techs gained were:
Pottery (8)
Warrior Code (4)
Alphabet (3)
Currency (2)
Horseback Riding (1)
Ceremonial Burial (1)
Construction (1)

During the research on starting techs we did a fair bit of research (still ongoing!) into huts in 2.42. Checking through those records I cannot see any time when a hut yielded science without the prerequisites already in place.

If your game is not heading for Democracy quickly (thus needing Invention) many quite advanced techs are available from huts. (University/Theory of Gravity/Chemistry/Medicine/Sanitation - amongst others.)

---------------

SG (2)

**Ribannah** · December 17, 2000, 20:45

quote:

Originally posted by SlowThinker on 12-16-2000 03:18 PM
Content: This post is related to the way how Civ2 determines selection of advances offered for next research ...
... [/b]Could you tell me if I am right?

Oedo posted exactly the same formula on the Strategy forum just a few weeks ago ("Oedo's unfinisehd"). There seem to be a few glitches though, especially with Warrior Code, but perhaps we should call that a Myth .

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
[This message has been edited by Ribannah (edited December 17, 2000).]

**SlowThinker** · December 18, 2000, 18:53

I finished my program (it may help to plan science research). http://home-1.worldonline.cz/~cz0456...n.htm#civ2plan

**SlowThinker** · December 18, 2000, 22:10

quote:

Originally posted by Ribannah on 12-17-2000 07:45 PM
There seem to be a few glitches though, especially with Warrior Code, but perhaps we should call that a Myth .

I have read Oedo's thread, but i didnt understand a result of their discussion. (I think they all died one week ago.)
Is "Oedo's law" correct in all situations or not? Do you know any resistant science-thread (for exxample with Warrior Code)?

[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 18, 2000).]

**Daddy-O** · December 19, 2000, 02:04

re: your second problem - beakers.
I think I saw this being discussed in a thread on OCC games in the strategy forum. The short story is they are not sure how this works.

re: your english.
Don't worry about it. First of all, it is about 97.5% correct. Second, I am sure that your English is much better than any of our Czech will ever be.

------------------
'I want to be hand counted and checked for dimples.'

**East Street Trader** · December 19, 2000, 07:30

Problem 2, I'm pretty sure that if you get no tech by means other than research it starts 10 beakers, 20 beakers, 30 beakers and then the arithmetic progression takes on a bit more of a geometric aspect. But that is almost wholly based on feel, not calculation.

I suspect that the practical benefit of knowing what the underlying beaker rate is would be small. OCC experience has taught us how critical the adjustment made for the tech lead over the AI is. That knowledge both demonstrates how complex the formula will be and reduces the value of what detailed calculation would reveal.

Problem 5, I play 2.42 and IIRC what you describe matches my experience.

Early on the AI will often accept a different tech from the one sought and some techs are highly prized by some civs throughout. But, generally, once I am well ahead, they are keen to trade for my most recent advance - especially critical ones like gunpowder or advances which allow wonders to be built. If you offer them something else they turn their noses up. If you are not far into the dialogue though (and they are not being abrupt with you because of your dominance) you can often repeat the offer to trade and the original deal will still be on offer.

Curiously advances which allow WoW don't seem to lose their appeal just because the wonder has been built.

If you are researching a critical tech, want to trade, but don't want to give that advance away it may pay to embark on a round of diplomacy just before the advance comes in.

**SlowThinker** · December 19, 2000, 09:03

quote:

Originally posted by East Street Trader on 12-19-2000 06:30 AM
Problem 2, I'm pretty sure that if you get no tech by means other than research it starts 10 beakers, 20 beakers, 30 beakers and then the arithmetic progression takes on a bit more of a geometric aspect.

I noticed that in the beginning of the game ](I never continue playing further , you now, I slowly start to think about the system of the game everytime. I prefere thinking over playing ) beakers grow up arithmeticaly with some "jumps". One of these jumps is between 5th and 6th advance, so it is very recommended not to risk any goody huts before the monarchy.

quote:

I suspect that the practical benefit of knowing what the underlying beaker rate is would be small.

If there are "jumps" through all game, it would be very usefull to know were jumps are. But, I am probably too radical micromanager and perfectionist...

Problem 5: Thank you for detailed answer. I was surprised i got an advantage over the computer. Can I pick from the list of computer's technologies at end stages of the game too?

**SlowThinker** · December 19, 2000, 09:16

quote:

Originally posted by skrobism on 12-19-2000 01:04 AM
re: your english.
Don't worry about it. First of all, it is about 97.5% correct. Second, I am sure that your English is much better than any of our Czech will ever be.

Firstly, I wanted to look modest.
Secondly, it would improve my english, if anybody would point to some big mistake.
I dont want to tell you you should start to analyze my posts and mail blunders in english to me

**kcbob** · December 19, 2000, 12:52

Ken, are you sure about Problem 3? I was hoping the white advances on my science advisor screen were those that some other civs did not have and consquently, it was alerting me to trade possibilities. I guess I just assume that white advances on my screen sometimes turned blue later on.

Slow, you are too modest. Your English is very good. Not perfect, mind you, but very good. Just be aware that not all of those who offer tips to you (me included) speak and write in perfect English themselves.

* Note to Apolyton - Any chance of getting a spell checker on the forums? *

------------------
Frodo lives!

Announcement

The system of advances in Civ2

The system of advances in Civ2

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment