What is the difference between firepower and attack points?

[Alexander's Horse]

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CASE CLOSED!

[finbar]

Firepower? That's the amount of damage the unit can cause in a successful attack. Attack points? Do you mean Attack Factor? Which is the unit's attack strength. Or Hit Points? The amount of damage it can sustain before it's destroyed.

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#33984591

[Smash]

FP is best understood when you think of rounds in a boxing match.

Ali has fp 2.Frazier has 1.

Each round Ali hits Frazier twice as many times as he gets hit.

or:
you get to punch me in the nose twice while I get to punch you once.

Attack strength is the likelihood of inflicting damage when attacking

Defense is likelihood when attacked.

[finbar]

Well put, Smash. And offering yourself up as an example was incredibly brave of you. Especially if someone asks for a demo.

The Firepower list is interesting. Everything scores either 1 or 2, except the Cruise Missile which scores 3. Yet the Nuclear missile only racks up a 1. Why is that?

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#33984591

[Smash]

hit points are how much damage it can take before being destroyed.

Cruise is offensive only.You could theoretically destroy it with a hammer.

it is
20-0-12-1-3

20-it is very likely to cause damage.A "power puncher"
0-it will not "fight back" when attacked."his chin is wide open"
12-duh-moves
1-not much to destroy it."a jab stuns him"
3-gets 3 punches to 1-packs a wallop


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited April 08, 2001).]

[Alexander's Horse]

Yeah I'm talking about attack points versus firepower. There's a thread on the strat section which compares artillery and armor which prompted my inquiry. Thanks for explaining.



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CASE CLOSED!

[finbar]

Smash - and yet the Nuke is 99-0-16-1-1. How come the Cruise gets 3 and the Nuke gets 1?

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Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited April 08, 2001).]

[Smash]

because the nuke has almost a 100% chance of hitting its target.

Think of the cruise missing a direct hit on its target but causing enough lateral damage to make the target inoperable.

The nuke can hit a dime.



I'm getting in to difficulty here

[finbar]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 04-08-2001 11:59 PM because the nuke has almost a 100% chance of hitting its target. Think of the cruise missing a direct hit on its target but causing enough lateral damage to make the target inoperable. The nuke can hit a dime. I'm getting in to difficulty here

Yeah well, how long since you've been really and truly tested?

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Mono Rules!
#33984591

[East Street Trader]

Thanks, Smash, that's the closest I've got to understanding the way combat works.

But I'm still not really there.

Attacks by cruise missiles and nukes must be a special case as I take it that there are no "rounds". They hit once and either destroy the target, or leave it alive but damaged.

But exactly what goes on in the rounds which make up unit to unit battles? I take it that in round one, the attacker attacks with his attack points, hitting once or more depending on his fire power. Presumably the defender just defends at first, either suffering damage or not depending on defence points and luck. But attackers suffer damage so, I take it, the defending unit gets a chance to strike back. Are the roles then reversed so that the defender's hit points and fire power become relevant, and the attackers defence points?

If that is right I wonder whether the earlier rounds have the effect of eroding the values - i.e. does the damage sustained in round one reduce the hit points/firepower and defence points in subsequent rounds?

Also how does the defence bonus from terrain work? Does each unit get the defence bonus of the terrain upon which they are standing - so that an attacker attacking from mountains will suffer less damage when the defending unit hits back?

An observation which intrigues me is the splendidly sudden way that a weak unit goes out against the ironclad. If the ironclad attacks, say an entrenched musketeer, then the "rounds" are visible as usual. But if it tackles something weaker, say a phallanx out in the open, then one minute the phallanx is there, the next "pouf" it is not. Seemingly no rounds (although the ironclad may emerge with a smidgeon of damage).

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Okay, kids, this was hashed over about a month or so ago. Instead of finding the thread, I'll save time and summarize briefly.

HP - the amount of damage a unit can take before being killed
FP - the amount of damage a unit can give with each hit

In combat, attack strength is figured vs. defense strength plus modifications (terrain, walls, etc). This creates a ratio for determining who wins a particular combat (lands a punch). The fire power determines the strength of each successful punch. The hit points determine how many punches can be taken. Punches are thrown until one unit is out of hit points.

For example, a settler and a warrior are identical (defensively), but the settler is twice as difficult to kill because he has 2 hit points. To clarify, the settler is as difficult to kill as two warriors in succession. Visualize this by imagining hit points as sets of ten points each, and fire power as sets of one point each. A 3fp punch knocks a 2hp unit down to 17, then 14, ... on down to 2 and death. If attack strength gets figured in, I don't know how.

A nuke only needs a fp of 1 because it has a special attack value of 99. IIRC, any unit with attack of 99 results in a nuclear explosion. Try this by changing a warrior from 1/1 to 99/1. Use it to kill somebody, then send in the engineers to clean up the mess. Unless this changed in MGE (I tinkered with it in an earlier version), the attack of 99 triggered the nuke explosion, the pollution, and the nuke sound effect. Presumably also the SDI affect, but I don't remember ever trying the plutonium warrior against an SDI city. Somebody test and report back! A cruise missile is just a very powerful one or two punch unit.

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon
[This message has been edited by Marquis de Sodaq (edited April 09, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

East Street Trader,
Marquis de Sodaq explained it, but I will answer your questions more directly:
(I am not 100% sure about the following, but 98%)

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader ...Are the roles then reversed so that the defender's hit points and fire power become relevant, and the attackers defence points?

Nothing is reversed, every "round" is identical. The attack and defense factor arbitrate who wins a round and causes a decrease of hit points to the oppponent. (This thread http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001761.html explains a lot.)

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader If that is right I wonder whether the earlier rounds have the effect of eroding the values - i.e. does the damage sustained in round one reduce the hit points/firepower and defence points in subsequent rounds?

No. Curiously no.

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader Also how does the defence bonus from terrain work? Does each unit get the defence bonus of the terrain upon which they are standing - so that an attacker attacking from mountains will suffer less damage when the defending unit hits back?

Only the defender gets a bonus.
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 09, 2001).]

[finbar]

Okay, I accept all of the above. And I think I even understand it. Now, take two triremes. Neither are vets. Trireme A wins battle. Reload the game and replay the battle. Trireme B wins. I've run this test a number of times and it mostly pans out that way. Why is it so?

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#33984591

[SlowThinker]

finbar,
do you want to say that triremes rotate in winning periodically if reloading?
That is A, B, A, B, A, B...
No fortuity?

[finbar]

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker on 04-09-2001 08:23 PM finbar, do you want to say that triremes rotate in winning periodically if reloading? That is A, B, A, B, A, B... No fortuity?

I'm just wondering what causes the difference, ST. Is there room for fortuitousness in this kind of computer software?

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
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Mono Rules!
#33984591