A new challenge in deity/raging?

[Marko_Polo]

I have now played successfully deity/raging with ICS, OCC and perfectionist strategy. I want more challenge and I'm asking if anyone has tried this yet: give all techs you discover to all civs immediately!

At start the AI is quite good at researching new techs and gets them quite rapidly. But at some point I've seen that AI almost completely stalls at discovering new techs. Maybe because I really like to trade techs with them and offer them as gifts as well. So aggressive Mongols get all civilized techs and civilized Babylonians get the military ones which those civs can't use for their own benefit. The result: the AI's preferable research path gets totally jammed because of the increased need for sciense beakers.

So, what do you think? Would this give us more competent AI?

[ChrisShaffer]

I often play with these settings, which can be a very difficult game indeed. I call it my "peacemaker challenge." If you win under these conditions, you can actually get a pretty big point bonus for long-term peace.

1) Large world, large landmass, continents, warm, wet, 5 billion years, raging hordes, deity, 7 civilizations.

2) I can build no Wonders.

3) I must try to find the AI, e.g. I can't sit back and not explore.

4) I give all technology to the AI for free, no trades.

5) I only defend my cities, I never attack the AI unless they declare war on me and are actively attacking my cities (though I will expell diplomats).

6) I do not bribe AI units or cities, nor do I steal technology.

7) When the AI makes demands, I always pay the tribute.

8) No WLTxD. Normal growth only.

9) Of course, this means I have to win by building a spaceship.
[This message has been edited by ChrisShaffer (edited January 25, 2001).]

[Marko_Polo]

quote: I often play with these settings, which can be a very difficult game indeed. I call it my "peacemaker challenge." If you win under these conditions, you can actually get a pretty big point bonus for long-term peace. 1) Large world, large landmass, continents, warm, wet, 5 billion years, raging hordes, deity, 7 civilizations.

Sounds like this is going be very long game where I have to build a lot of cities.. is ICC-strategy allowed (I build a LOT of 2-sized cities close together?)

quote: 2) I can build no Wonders.

Expect Apollo-wonder.. Well, that means I can't build the SSC either.

quote: 3) I must try to find the AI, e.g. I can't sit back and not explore.

Hmm.. I need good trade routes to compensate the lack of SSC so this is mandatory.

quote: 4) I give all technology to the AI for free, no trades.

What I'm supposed to do at the first contact with AI when he usually wants to trade techs? I simply decline and offer them as gifts next turn?

quote: 5) I only defend my cities, I never attack the AI unless they declare war on me and are actively attacking my cities (though I will expell diplomats).

quote: 6) I do not bribe AI units or cities, nor do I steal technology.

But I can still bribe barbs, right?

quote: 7) When the AI makes demands, I always pay the tribute.

Ugh, I don't like this one.. makes me feel like a coward..

quote: 8) No WLTxD. Normal growth only.

Hmm.. I can live with that..

quote: 9) Of course, this means I have to win by building a spaceship.

So I guess I can't use AI to my advantage in any way. And I really have to micromanage my cities very carefully to survive, right?

Has anyone else tried this strategy? And if, what's the best AC landing date then? What are the most common problems to deal with?

[ChrisShaffer]

First, note that I usually lose. That's why I like this challenge - it's very hard to win. I think my win-loss ratio is 1 in 20 or worse.

To answer your questions in order:

Yes, you can ICS if you want, but I don't often do that as I find that play style boring. It works, but I get too bored and end up restarting. But no matter what, a lot of cities are required. On a large map with large land mass and continents, it's not hard to make a big empire though.

You have to wait for someone else to build Apollo before you can start building your spaceship. And while you can have good science cities, without wonders an SSC is basically impossible.

Yes, I decline technology trades when offered by the AI, and then I turn around and give them the techs for free - you can usually do that the same turn.

Yes, I bribe barbarians.

Paying tribute is part of keeping the game on a peace setting. If you don't pay tribute, sometimes the AI declares war, and avoiding war is the #1 goal of the challenge :-)

Yes, you have to micromanage your cities to survive. I'm a masochist, I like to micromanage everything.

The biggest problems I had at first were getting my cities to grow without the WLTxD. Granaries, harbors, irrigation, and food specials are more important.

It's also very important to have a good number of mid-size research centers. You're always behind the AI in research, so you've got to pinch and save and struggle to keep up.

Keeping people happy without the happiness wonders is a pain too, especially early on when I end up sending troops out with the settlers to calm that first unhappy citizen - having that first citizen unhappy with no troop means a city that takes forever to get off the ground - something you can't really afford.

And, a depressing number of times, the AI has built the spaceship faster than I did. The key to winning is taking all the effort that usually goes into producing wonders and using it to grow, grow, grow. I do obscene amounts of land improvements.

I think the earliest I've reached Alpha Centauri using this challenge is around 1930, though I don't really remember.
[This message has been edited by ChrisShaffer (edited January 27, 2001).]

[ChrisShaffer]

Note also that it's hard to do a pure ICS with no happiness wonders.

[Marko_Polo]

quote: Originally posted by ChrisShaffer on 01-27-2001 02:12 PM And, a depressing number of times, the AI has built the spaceship faster than I did

Chris, do you make food caravans in advance to be used when you start building space ship parts?

What about diplomacy.. can you establish alliance with everyone when you are so kind and nice to all those AI's

[ChrisShaffer]

Yes, I build caravans. I don't think you could win this without them. Caravans and cash are the only way to build a spaceship before the AI does. The trick is getting enough of them built and still keeping up with the AI in technology and buildings. Near the end, you're giving the AI every technology you get, and they are not giving their techs to you, so often they get a jump on the space race.

And yes, I often form alliances. They don't last all that long though, because someone else will demand that I cancel an alliance, and I have to conceed their demand. Also, I'm playing MGE and not 2.42, so the AI keeps getting angry with me even though I'm giving it technologies. Alliances don't get me much other than the occassional map trade, but I can usually get a map from an AI after I give them five or six techs in a row anyway.

[ChrisShaffer]

Hm, a new idea, I think I'll try this on a Giga map.