Battleships

[Fiji]

are battleships overstrenght in CIV II?
historically, the BB type of ship was finnished when aircraft became able to carry 500 pounds worth of torpedo.
Now, in CIVII, it usually takes 2 or 3 bombers to kill a BB ... isn't that a little much?
I'd like to see a real life BB do that (well, no, I wouldn't ... I only like war when the casualties are binary)

problem is ... what exactly does the BB unit represent?
1 BB, several BB, 1 BB + support craft, an entire fleet?

[Bohlen]

First off, vet battleship units are just great. I've been trying to play more naval warfare games lately and this unit is by far the best naval unit for bombarding a coastal city.

I'd like to think that all single civ icons represent groups of related units. For me, the battleship unit consists of multiple battleships and the bomber unit of multiple bombers. I guess you could use any amount when talking about the number of units that is represented by a game icon. It's all relative. I really don't think the game designers made any one game icon to represent one single unit of that type.

[suas333]

right, just like a population points count as like 10,000 people, i think each unit counts as an army division of some kind.

[Fiji]

Well, maybe the spy and diplomat represent just one person (probably not, they represent an entire team)

but I still think, if the BB unit represents several BB, that the battleship unit is too hard to kill via air power.
so the designers probably ment it to represent 1 or more BBs with a few dedicated airdefence DDs

ok, problem solved

[Mark von Wagner]

A good view of the naval units is that each unit represents a task force, rather than a single unit. Thus, you have carrier task forces, battleship task forces, cruiser task forces, etc.

[Deathwalker]

Given the advances in missle defence and anti aircraft weapons it is not beyond belief that know does osome of the larger warships could fight of aircraft. Though the effectiveness of these technologies has not bee fully tested except in the falklands when two light aircraft cariiers fought of the Argentina airforce with out loosing hug amount of ships like in some of the battles at the end of WW2 were aircraft alone could wipe out an entire fleet.

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

[Fiji]

hence my original problem, there is no way a battleship (or a group of battleships) can ever seriously hurt aircraft attacking it, but add the escorts, et voila, you've got a bomberkiller.

anyone care to guess as to the numbers of people in a musketeer unit (or riflemen or paratroops or ...)

[Dissident Aggressor]

cruise missles solve the battleship problem for the ai. may work for the human too. although the ai wastes vast resources devloping 30 to 40 cruise missles.

when I play the high levels, cruise missles decimate my battleships and carriers to the point I don't bother building them. But I agree air units should be much more effective against them. But remember modern battlehsips (refitted Missouri/Iowa/Wisconsin) were outfitted with phalanx weaons systems to replace old aa guns. Although they were never really battle tested.
[This message has been edited by Dissident Aggressor (edited October 18, 2000).]

[Fiji]

Phalanx is a last-ditch measure, combined with the vintage radar and tracing system, an upgraded BB still needed a DD screen

[Dissident Aggressor]

agreed. but that is something that can't be implimented in civ2. An actual battle group vice individual units. A battleship would be doomed on it's own without escorts. They just wouldn't be able to handle large numbers of aircraft.

As for number of ships/men in a unit. I always figured battleships and carrier units to be 1 ship. Although cruisers/destoryers would be maybe 5 to 10 ships. And I count infanry/ mech infantry to be 1 division. aircraft to be one squadron etc. Just little things to add more realism to the game. I know it's not really a war game, but close enough.

[Case]

The US Navy reckons it takes 3 ships to keep one on station in a distant part of the world (eg one on station, one in transit to or from the station, and one refitting/training). As your battleships never need to return to base to resupply I alway go on the assuption that one battleship = 3 battleships in various stages of readyness.

[N35t0r]

quote: Originally posted by suas333 on 10-12-2000 09:29 PM right, just like a population points count as like 10,000 people, i think each unit counts as an army division of some kind.

Exept for nukes

[N35t0r]

The way you can keep a trireme on the other end of the world for nearly 6,000 years is somewhat strange, though.

[Dissident Aggressor]

lol. I can see a caravan. as they used to loot and sell what they needed for food. But a tireme? Oh well I'm thankful. Because it usually takes forever until I get a caravel.

[Fiji]

there are loads of things not quite realistic (like, who cares)
like sending some poor phalanx on a walk around the poles

like i said, who cares?