Difficulty Levels

[Exile]

I must say that I am curious. The Apolyton survey indicates that most people play at (or enjoy most) the "Deity" level of play. What is it exactly that makes throwing armor at archers and losing fun? I normally play on "Prince" and, after reading that many players routinely play at the higher levels, I feel a little amateurish. I've played on King, and won, but the feel of the game was that of a race--a tech race, rather than a game simulating empire-building. Are games at the higher levels really fun? If so, I would like to hear why from some of the players who play at that level.

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[Ken Hinds]

Because we are all masochists and like being beat with blunt objects such as tanks, stealth bombers, and howies or wave upon wave of barbarian fanatics.

Ken

[DaveV]

Exile - the short answer is that for a lot of the people who post here, even Deity level is too easy to win against the computer. After you've played a lot, read a lot of the posts here, and refined your strategy to a point where it's instinctive, the AI is a pushover.

But I think the poll was referring to multiplayer (MP) games. I think there are two reasons why people prefer Deity level in MP:

1. They're used to playing at that level (see above).
2. All civs start with two settlers. This helps give all players an even start in the game.

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 09-21-2000 07:39 AM ...even Deity level is too easy to win against the computer.

I haven't reached that point yet although ICS is helping. If you want to reach this "level of expertise", then I would suggest a few things.

Play at a difficulty level until you are fairly competent, then move to the next level.

Don't revert, i.e., save a game, make a move, and reload the game if you don't like the results. Live and learn.

Read the posts on a daily basis. Your knowledge will increase dramatically.

Don't worry. There is still a challenge for empire building at deity level.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Exile]

These are all good answers. Thanks. More questions arise, however. What aspects of Deity level play appear in these MP games? # of Barbs? What is the "Happiness" level at Deity? Why does the prospect of out-of-control-cities-in-disorder attract players? Do other players ENJOY the difficulties of civil unrest? More to the point, I feel like when I reach certain military watershed techs (gunpowder, Conscription,) That, at that point, I should like to go out and conquer. If the game moves at the breakneck pace of the higher difficulty levels, it seems that there is seldom an opportunity to revel in a given period. An example; at some point, my empire reaches gunpowder tech; I build an army of musketeers & pikes; but before I am actually able to put this army in action, it becomes obsolete because of the fast pace of the technology RACE. Again, there is no chance to REVEL in an attractive historical period. It goes by too fast. I feel that this is probably where scenarios come in, but I will start another thread to address that issue.

[DaveV]

Exile - most people agree that the AI mimics the human player's research rate. If you want to sally forth once you achieve a certain tech level, throttle your research waaay back and go out and conquer.

[Shadowstrike]

Don't worry, I still play at Prince and King.....

*Gets beaten by Diety Apolytoners*

Actually, moving up isn't that hard, go over the the Strategy forum and pick up a few hints, and move up...

[Smash]

MP games go alot faster tech wise because intelligent humans are at the helm.That doesn't change with play level.In fact,the lower the level the faster things go.Most mp games don't have ais.At king level it is feasible to have 30 cities by 2000bc.Thats a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

Deity is desired because
1-all get 2 settlers.Less hassles with "clean" restarts.

1a.Happiness-you need to build more than settlers at deity level
1b-riot factor is higher and it is much harder to expand

2-barbs-raging hoardes on deity keeps you honest.Sometimes you get hammered early.But,sometimes you get lots of gold

3.Players are used to it

Emperor is a level that more MP games should be played at.With 1 settler at 1x production and 1x moves on large maps.Even that will move along quickly for some civs.

[DarkCloud]

I play Prince with 'Raging Hordes' and a custom map where all civs are within 15 squares of each other on the same continent.

[kcbob]

The civil unrest problem can be avoided with proper planning. A city here and there might still crop up but you can quickly fix it, e.g., a temple or Elvis.

The breakneck speed eventually becomes you're accustomed to and after a while you really don't notice it. Yes, there might be a quick jump from Gunpowder to Conscription, but beyond that, I would say that the game gives an excellent approximation for the timeline in real life... depending on your beaker count per turn.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Exile]

The responses have been great! thanx!

to Ken Hinds; Priceless! I laughed out loud at your response, thanx.

to Smash; a wealth of info from you. Thanx a lot!

to Shadowstrike; you know, I play solo games on prince even to this very day. I suppose its because I am perpetually fascinated with empire-building and like to watch the process. I have played at higher levels and won, so that isn't an issue. I just don't enjoy the pressure of these games. I am very seriously considering MP games as an alternative, but feel like I may be stepping off into water over my head. Does anyone play MP scenarios? I can think of several that would be enjoyable as a MP game.

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[This message has been edited by Exile (edited September 22, 2000).]

[Father Beast]

I am not good enough to win at the higher levels. I graduated from chieftan to warlord since joining the forums, and would probably be playing at prince if I could wean myself of "the forever war" I'm playing.
I played a game at deity a while back to see how bad it was. I was so pathetic, the romans launched their spaceship about the time I discovered gunpowder. The english came and wiped my worthless civilization off the map before the roman ship actually landed.
maybe with more experience...

[MacUser]

quote: Originally posted by kcbob on 09-21-2000 08:50 AMDon't revert, i.e., save a game, make a move, and reload the game if you don't like the results. Live and learn.

Now THAT'S the really hard part! It's like ignoring a plate of cookies while on a diet! And no, I've never met a cookie I didn't like!

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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese

[Ken Hinds]

Exile,

On a more serious note this time. You have mentioned that you too prefer to be the Good Little Barbarian Who Peacefully Coexists With Everyone as long as they can be the First to arrive on AC. Try playing Jesus' Phillip II or Wilson Theodoro's Ice Realms scenarios on Diety. If you play as Philip II or the protagonist in Ice Realms I think you will find that the qualities that you are getting in regular civ at prince will be available in these at Diety. Ice Realms most of all, since it is much less of a conquest scenario and more of a build and support your civ type of scenario. You will have to defend yourself in both but it is extremely easy to do as Philip and in my several attempts at Ice Realms the AI has been quite open and friendly,for MGE that is, even though you are actually at war with them. The barbarians in Ice Realms are irritating, but by no means devestating. One bit of advise that I obtained from Wilson in my e-mail with him that was not available with the scenario, since there is no readme. If you let your leader get killed you should start over.

Philip II is available here in the CSC and Ice Realms at http://www.geocities.com/theodoro.geo/

Ken

[Exile]

Ken Hinds; thanx again for the laughs, & thanx for the serious reply too. For whatever reason, I really enjoy the historical scenarios much more than the sci-fi scens. I do have a downloaded version of Phillip II (from this very site) but have not played it on deity. Ever. I'll try it. Maybe I'll learn something.

Later,
Exile

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