Civ2 Democracy Game- Exodus - Anyone Interested?

[Panag]

Originally posted by EmuGod
Thank you for the defence H Tower but it is not necessary. If people here feel that Eli or Sirotnikov would do a better job in leading this democracy game then I would be more than happy to let them do it. I know I'm not a very good leader and it does not bother me when somebody claims that they think they can do a better job. On the contrary, if it gets the game going I would be more than happy to let others take the job.

hi ,

DanQ pointed out weeks ago in a mail that Yaroslav has to be asked how the status is , .......

still no answer from him , so Yaroslav , ones again , .....

have a nice day

[yaroslav]

I'm still waiting for a DanQ PM...

[H Tower]

Originally posted by panag
but yeah , some people prefer to criticize off site and then they are surprised that what they write there does actually happen , .....

what does that mean?

[Sirotnikov]

Siro's government model:

I worked for a long time on a model for government that I think will fit this game nicely, and is very suitable for other games as well.

[H Tower]

Siro's Plan

Prime Minister
-Oversees general policy issues
-Executes game orders and runs the game
-Posts updates and queries on the forums and site
-Elected by relative vote of different parties.
-Presents government according to his likings from his own and other parties.
-Can be overthrow by 2/3 vote of parliament, or 50% absolute vote

President
-Declares and calls elections
-Appoints and dismisses Justices
-Elected in direct elections.
-Can be overthrow by 2/3 vote of parliament, or 50% absolute vote

Defense
-Devises strategic war plans
-Appoints Chief of Staff
-Commands intelligence activities
-Responsible for home front defence

Economy
-Responsible for science, taxes and luxuries.
-Responsible for managing settlers in public works.

Interior
-Responsible for managing cities
-Determines city productios
-Responsible for founding new cities.

Foreign
-Responsible for talks and deals with foreign governments
Advises foreign policy to the PM and Defense minister.


High Justice
-Oversees court activity
-Resides appeals court
-Overthrows officials without vote

Justice
-Formulates new laws.
-Manages law making (accepts laws, and archives them)
-Defends government in court.

2 Justices
-Reside in cases, judge and document them.

Comptroller
-Posts criticism of the game in all senses.
-Observes constitution
-Can file suits to the court
-Appointed by the president or by popular vote

Historian
-Documents and archives events in the forums and the game.
-Is appointed by the president or by popular vote.

Chief of Staff
-Appointed and dismissed by the PM
-Devises tactical war plans
-IDF chief commander

Commands
-Northern
Lebanon and Syria
-Center
Palestine and Jordan
-South West
Egypt
-South East
Saudi Arabia and Iraq

Corps
-Air & Paratroops
Responsible for managing the air force and aiding needing commands
-Navy & Marines
Responsible for managing the navy and aiding needing commands


Note: To get a better view of Siro's plan, you really should download the document, the way he tabled it helps understand how it would be set up.

[H Tower]

Comments on the Siro Plan

The first thing that jumps out at me is that we have 18 positions! so far only 15 people have voted yes in the poll for this thread, a difficulty to say the least.

There's a mistake made about the appointment of the Chief of Staff. The defense minister description says that he appoints the Chief, however the Chief description says that he is appointed by the Prime Minister.

Corps Commanders: I hate the idea of this so much it makes my blood boil when someone says that it would work. Let's say that we're laying a huge offensive on into Egypt. We have a few naval vessels that will be used for shore bombardment wherever the Army needs them, a Marine contingent to move along the coast, the Air Force to also provide support to the army, and finally the army itself. Now, for maximum success, the Army should push itself into Egypt as far as it can easily go, then use the Airforce to bust a whole in the Egyptian lines, then the army can move through the hole in the enemy lines until they get to the next roadblock, the navy takes care of that one, and then the army moves again. Sounds good, right? Well that just took 5 posted save files to get done, now consider that all of the fronts have some kind of combined arms operation going on, we would have 20-30 posted save files for only 1 turn! It would be chaos! Corp commanders are a TERRIBLE IDEA.

Settlers: The Economy minister is in charge of settlers working for the public works, but the Interior minister is in charge of building new cities, dual ownership of the engineers???

The Court: The high Justice can overthrow an elected official without a vote??? The Court formulates new laws, so now we are putting the people who rule on points of law, creating the law? Whatever happened to the system of checks and balances? What kind of laws are we talking about here anyways?

Comtroller: He makes criticisms of the game? Won't we all be criticiszing bad decisions, military operations? Can't anyone file a complaint with the court?

Midlevel ministers: How are Defense, Interior, Economy, Justices, Foriegn ministers selected?

Wrapping it up: I'd like to hear more about how elections and court cases would work, like what kind of cases would there be, types of rulings that could be handed out, etc, etc.

[EmuGod]

I also have a plan in mind which I will write up soon and post here for everyone's approval. I have to say I agree with much of H Tower's criticisms, especially on the idea of Corps Commanders. In theory, they make a lot of sense but in practice it would be very complicated.

[yaroslav]

I'm going to read the document and I'll post my answer, but first and foremost I wish to thanks Siro for taking the time of thinking so heavily in the game structure

[sirsnuggles]

I don't understand the whole court process. What laws are we talking about. Are we going to have to write a 250 page constitution enumerating the laws of Israel? More explanation needed on this one.

Although the corps idea is complicated, it would get more people involved in the game, and would follow real life more closely. Even in real war, the army sometimes gets abandoned, or crossed up, or miscommunicated with the airforce or navy. I'd love to see that happen here. I could just imagine the he-said-she-said (army-promised-navy-promised) arguments!

I think its great. We need a challenge when it comes to beating the tired ai.

[sirsnuggles]

As to the slowness of this game.

is patient.

[EmuGod]

Originally posted by sirsnuggles
I don't understand the whole court process. What laws are we talking about. Are we going to have to write a 250 page constitution enumerating the laws of Israel? More explanation needed on this one.

Although the corps idea is complicated, it would get more people involved in the game, and would follow real life more closely. Even in real war, the army sometimes gets abandoned, or crossed up, or miscommunicated with the airforce or navy. I'd love to see that happen here. I could just imagine the he-said-she-said (army-promised-navy-promised) arguments!

I think its great. We need a challenge when it comes to beating the tired ai.

Have you tried this scenario on Deity? If not, let me assure you that the AI is not as clumsy at it usually is. Along the entire front it seems that endless numbers of armoured cars keeping rolling against the border towns and the Syians and Egyptians are very hard to stop.

[Panag]

Originally posted by EmuGod


Have you tried this scenario on Deity? If not, let me assure you that the AI is not as clumsy at it usually is. Along the entire front it seems that endless numbers of armoured cars keeping rolling against the border towns and the Syians and Egyptians are very hard to stop.

hi ,

well you shall loose some , but in the end you can win , you need to send in a couple planes to do it and make sure you can rush ones in a while , ....

getting the goody huts at the start are also a nice bonus

have a nice day

[Stefan Härtel]

Hey guys, you will need to educate me a bit on Israeli politics if you want me to make a decent paper, BTW. I've browsed the net for Israeli sites about Israel, it's history in particular, but found nothing

[Panag]

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
Hey guys, you will need to educate me a bit on Israeli politics if you want me to make a decent paper, BTW. I've browsed the net for Israeli sites about Israel, it's history in particular, but found nothing

hi ,

try www.index.co.il


or newspaper+Israel in your searchmachine , ....

what do you want to know about , ......

just send a PM

Shabath Shalom

[Panag]

hi ,


Haaretz - http://www.haaretz.com
Ma'ariv - http://www.maariv.co.il
Yediot Aharonot - http://www.ynet.co.il
Globes - http://www.globes.co.il
Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com

and here is a good one >>> www.idf.il


enjoy


have a nice day