Strategies to Use in This Game

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by cavebear
The Salt Caravan is only 2 turns from either Giza or Killdeer, so that will be out of our way soon. It might be best to change Aploytonia to another Caravan in anticipation of the next trade good. And since a Caravel is heading back to Aolytonia now, it will be able to ship out a new Caravan quickly (4 turns).

Two points
--The Salt can be delivered in one turn by chaining with the other boat; and Giza seems to be the better prospect since it is bigger.

--The boat heading back to Apoly' is homed there. Should we not consider sending it to Utica or some other Colony city for rehoming and possibly continue on exploring the coatline to our East??

Changing away from Settler to Camel is a wonderful idea!!

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by cavebear
A couple of other points...

I would love to stop Xinning (for entirely selfish reasons). It takes a lot of time, and it is not something I am used to doing. If we get any more cities able to Xin (and on different schedules) I will lose what is left of my tiny ursine mind :LOL:

I think we should rush the Settlers and Temples in the colony cities to get them free for more Settlers until we have reached our temporary limit on cities and have enough Settlers to build our Road network. Then we can start thinking of Crusaders!

No offense to Master Xin, but I agree with you. It will be much easier and the benifits of Xin are not so pronounced any more.

Rushing is a good idea.

I have been trying to figure out how to word AND how many polls are needed for all the Colony City Planning Possiblities. If I remember correctly from my Development Project, we can make ten cities on this map before initial disorder. That's just three more cities. Do we hold at ten, or depending on available cash, keep building cities, knowing they will need an "immediate" Temple?? Then, the question becomes, do we hold cities at size 3 or start making Colosseums for further growth now. Then there are other possible build orders for the Colonies like boats. Then there is the possibility (liklihood??) that Markets will be necessary for the Colonies to celebrate for growth rather than natural growth. Maybe we should, after Colosseums are in place, rush settlers in food rich cities to build into others.

So dang many possibilities!! So dang many questions!! I will attempt to muddle through, but any thoughts about possible questions anyone would like to poll will be considered.

Monk

[Sparrowhawk]

I say yes to more then 10 cities (and immediate temples) and no to colleseums right away more settlers and more cities rather then colleseums). Perhaps Marketplaces rather then colleseums? Cheaper and they increase both Trade and Luxuries (and thus happy citizens).

I would like to see a second Science poll from you (as Monotheism (or whatever we decide to research next ) should be complete before the end of the next turnset.

As for other polls, I agree you are in a difficult position...I would like to see a poll on every city and what to build next but this seems excessive...how about one poll for all the colonies with a few options each? A: Caralis-Settler, Caravan, Elephant, Marketplace or Colleseum (or some similar options??) and the same in the same poll for each of the colonies?

[Bloody Monk]

Sparrowhawk,

Taking your paragraphs in reverse:

3) Still working on it

2) Done

1) Marketplaces, at 20% Lux, will not allow growth to size 5 with no redheads, for most cities, maybe all. There is no substitute for Colosseums if want cities greater than size three AND able to use all the workers without needing Elvis impersonators. Markets have little effect until the cities are working roaded or special tiles. With cities working shield tiles, and at 20% tax, Markets are just a maintance drain because most only yield 1g taxes/turn.

So, do you still say no to selected Colosseums?? How about for the frontline cities, Utica and Panama??

Monk

[cavebear]

Chaining will work just fine to get the Salt off our list, We did not forbid ourselves ship-chaining (an oversight, probably). Great observation, Monk, LOL!

If we rehome a Caravel to Utica, that will cause it to be delayed in picking up the Apoytonia Caravel being recommended (change from Settler) but will be well worth it, I think.

We can control population growth in colony cities by moving Workers to Forests or by building Settlers that will exist for a while building Roads.

I favor bringing cities to a size where we can celebrate them to 8 rapidly, the better to support our building of attack units. The point is to to create attacking units to capture cities for techs and Wonders. Otherwise, we have no chance at this game.

With continued trading, we can keep enough gold aroubd to build immediate Temples for some new cities when required.

[cavebear]

The colony cities are not so different that each requires a separate poll. Probably, a general set of build commands is sufficient.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by cavebear
Chaining will work just fine to get the Salt off our list, We did not forbid ourselves ship-chaining (an oversight, probably). Great observation, Monk, LOL!

Thank you, Sire!! Why would you ever want to forbid ship chains??

Originally posted by cavebear
If we rehome a Caravel to Utica, that will cause it to be delayed in picking up the Apoytonia Caravel being recommended (change from Settler) but will be well worth it, I think.

Check the poll, Sire. I am sure you meant to say, "This will be no problem because, surely, a new commodity slot will open when Salt is delivered and a Camel will be built next in Apolytonia. Caravels are recommended only as a substitute for Camels when they are unavailable,"

Originally posted by cavebear
I favor bringing cities to a size where we can celebrate them to 8 rapidly, the better to support our building of attack units. The point is to to create attacking units to capture cities for techs and Wonders. Otherwise, we have no chance at this game.

With continued trading, we can keep enough gold aroubd to build immediate Temples for some new cities when required.

I absolutely agree with this sentiment and strategy. However, I must call attention to the resistance from the hoi polloi err, citizenry to even build the Colosseums necessary for size 5, much less size 8. So I urge you to use your bully pulpit to drum up more support for Colosseums.

Monk

[cavebear]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk


Thank you, Sire!! Why would you ever want to forbid ship chains??

We have, in various games, forbidden ourselves different units or strategies in order to make our challenge greater.

Check the poll, Sire. I am sure you meant to say, "This will be no problem because, surely, a new commodity slot will open when Salt is delivered and a Camel will be built next in Apolytonia. Caravels are recommended only as a substitute for Camels when they are unavailable,"

I meant Caravan, not Caravel. Sorry. Other than that "Yes, what he said".

I absolutely agree with this sentiment and strategy. However, I must call attention to the resistance from the hoi polloi err, citizenry to even build the Colosseums necessary for size 5, much less size 8. So I urge you to use your bully pulpit to drum up more support for Colosseums.

Bread and Circuses must given attention. We will need Colosseams at some point. The rabble Citizens need entertainment to remain happy in larger numbers!

[rjmatsleepers]

On the size of colonies question ...

my experience from early landing games is that with a temple but no colosseum, it is usually possible to have a size 5 city with two non-workers (either scientists or taxmen). This usually takes care of any food surplus, but reduces the available shields. However, if we can get a good trade system going, we will be able to rush build which will reduce the impact of the loss of shields.

The other possibility (but one that needs to be handled carefully) is xinning with disorder in our size 5 colonies - ie allowing the colony to go into disorder on the turn where we are putting food into the food box.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
On the size of colonies question ...

my experience from early landing games is that with a temple but no colosseum, it is usually possible to have a size 5 city with two non-workers (either scientists or taxmen). This usually takes care of any food surplus, but reduces the available shields. However, if we can get a good trade system going, we will be able to rush build which will reduce the impact of the loss of shields.

The other possibility (but one that needs to be handled carefully) is xinning with disorder in our size 5 colonies - ie allowing the colony to go into disorder on the turn where we are putting food into the food box.

RJM at Sleeper's

I have had some success in Early Landing Games, and never have I been able to do as you suggest, except with fewer than nine cities, total. Beyond that level, approximately every two additional cities causes an older city to go into disorder. This is something that can not be sustained where there is already zero food surplus. That city will starve when you are forced to make a third elvis.

Until we find some large offshore AI cities, a "good trade system" is a non-starter. That means we will need all the shields we can muster to build and support some additional boats for exploration. I fail to see how we can do this quickly without colosseums.

Finally, cavebear has already expressed a desire to end the one city Xinning we have been doing. I can't imagine he will look forward to "Xinning with disorder" across many cities, even if it is possible. Can this be done in Republic without crashing the Senate??

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk


Finally, cavebear has already expressed a desire to end the one city Xinning we have been doing. I can't imagine he will look forward to "Xinning with disorder" across many cities, even if it is possible. Can this be done in Republic without crashing the Senate??

Monk

Well it can be done, but it is tedious in the extreme. You must make sure that the cities are synchronised so that they go into disorder at the same time. I did it once in a game where I lost my capital before I had learned how to build a palace and consequently fell way behind. I would certainly understand if our noble leader didn't want to follow that path.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bloody Monk]

On Xinning w/ Disorder

Yes, we agree that this would be very tedious.

What I would like to see is some discussion as to how this would be helpful in reaching our immediate goals.

Certainly it would be nice to get research completed faster. But, isn't our first priority to get our Colony in a more defensible position?? And by defense, I really mean offense.

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: On Xinning w/ Disorder

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

Certainly it would be nice to get research completed faster. But, isn't our first priority to get our Colony in a more defensible position?? And by defense, I really mean offense.

Monk

You are right that we must prepare ourselves for when we start to attack the AI civs. If the minister of war is happy to attack with crusaders then researching faster is not a high priority. (I assume we are reasonably close to monotheism.) If this is the case perhaps we should begin a few barracks when our current builds are completed and be ready to switch builds to crusaders once we discover monotheism.

If we need to discover some other technology - coscription, leadership, armoured warfare, machine tools, fundamentalism, whatever - before we launch our attack, then it's worth considering ways in which we can increase our research rate.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bloody Monk]

rjm

Something in what you write makes me wonder if you have looked at the game. Can this be true??

Monk

[Sparrowhawk]

While perhaps we should wait for RJM to answer your question Monk, I should let you know that this is the first Civ2Demo Game where the save is available to all (at least as far as I know), so most of us are used to commenting on the game without being able to view the save, so if RJM hasn't downloaded it or viewed it, it is not only possible, but quite likely the way he has always played it (Demo Games).

Having been in the position of speaking about the game without being able to view the save, I can tell you it can be frustrating to try and assess our situation by screenshots alone but this was how it was done (and I am not sure which was better.....screenshots only encouraged people to run for Ministerial positions and forced them to post many screenshots which encouraged discussion).

The jury is still out in my book. (Although I think it was made available to all due to lagging interest).