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**Moraelin** · December 15, 2001, 19:27

Not sure, but... Can't the author delete a message, too? I'm sure I saw a delete button when editing the first message in my mods' thereads. (To put a new version in there.)

**Venger** · December 15, 2001, 19:38

I've tried deleting my own posts (usually after a double post) and am not allowed.

This post of his had already elicited numerous replies, from the shill side of the ledger...

Venger

**senowen** · December 15, 2001, 19:41

Re: Forum CENSORSHIP

Originally posted by Venger

Has this thread been deleted? Why? An objectionable thread should be CLOSED, not deleted. I see no mention of it being moved. Is this forum now asskiss only? Because it sures seems like the only way this thread is deleted is by moderators, and the only reason I can imagine this was deleted was to make it more Firaxis friendly.

If this is the case, be open about it and say so, now.

Venger

I agree with Venger. Even though I replied harshly to Brutal's post I didn't think that censorship was the answer. OR was it my reply, seeing as it was a little over the top. I came back to edit my post and the whole thread was gone.

**XPav** · December 15, 2001, 19:54

Whatever is the cause of error messages and disappearing threads, please realize that this is not a public forum -- it is put up by the owners of this site, and they can do whatever they damn well please.

And there's nothing you can do besides go somwhere else, or you can start your own forum.

**senowen** · December 15, 2001, 20:02

XPav, everyone knows that this is a private forum, but everyone has come to expect complete openness from the forum moderators because that is the way it has been run for as long as I have been a lurker then poster. However, it was quite rude for Venger to imply that the mods are Firaxis stooges since he and a few others would be banned if that were true.

**Ming** · December 15, 2001, 20:13

First... this thread is being moved to the Apoltyon Forum where ALL complaints about mods belong.

Second... Threads that flame any member... and that includes posters from Firixas will be closed/deleted.

Third... Spam isn't allowed. When there are already Multiple Threads on a given subject, additional thread will be closed/deleted.

If you want to complain, feel free to contact the Amin on this subject!

**Terser** · December 15, 2001, 20:21

Originally posted by XPav
Whatever is the cause of error messages and disappearing threads, please realize that this is not a public forum -- it is put up by the owners of this site, and they can do whatever they damn well please.

And there's nothing you can do besides go somwhere else, or you can start your own forum.

Agree 100%. We are all guests here, and as such we should conduct ourselves in these forums in much the same way we would were we guests in someone's home. Their house=their rules.

In this case, though, we have been invited for the express purpose of debating/arguing/discussing issues related to the Civilization series of games. Unless such discourse lapses into extreme profanity, racial slurs, or other widely accepted crass forms of behavior than it becomes hard to justify deleting/heavily editing posts.

If the post in question was deleted simply because its' topic was deemed "stale" or "inflammatory" than that is disturbuing but completely within the wherewithall of the moderators. However, it is crucial that the site's owners make this publicly known.

Also, keeping this site going takes money from advertisers, and advertisers fund sites with lots of hits. If people start feeling that their ideas are being arbitrarily censored, they will go elsewhere. The advertisers will follow, and the site will suffer.

Moderators are best who moderate least.

**Venger** · December 15, 2001, 20:33

Originally posted by senowen
However, it was quite rude for Venger to imply that the mods are Firaxis stooges since he and a few others would be banned if that were true.

Rude was what you wrote to Brutal.

That said, can you offer any other explanation as to what happened? My money is on Ming deleting the thread because they wan't a Firaxis friendly forum.

XPav's "take their marbles and go home" attitude is just fine, just lay the groundrules out for everyone to see. If this is a fanboy forum, so be it, just let us know...

Venger

**Ming** · December 15, 2001, 20:37

Originally posted by Terser
If people start feeling that their ideas are being arbitrarily censored, they will go elsewhere. The advertisers will follow, and the site will suffer.

Moderators are best who moderate least.

No... Moderators that do their job are best of all.

There was NO need for ANOTHER thread on the subject, and it added NOTHING new to the discussion. Peoplo are just cluttering up the forum because they are either too lazy to post their thoughts in one of the MANY threads already on the subject, or are just interested in seeing a thread with their name on it.
The biggest number of complaints I receive (besides flaming and personal attacks) is the clutter in the Civ III general forum.
Just doing my job.

In addition... there is no problem with people posting their negative feelings or opinions about the game. As anybody can see from looking at the number of negative threads, to imply that peoples "feelings" are being censored is just plain incorrect.

However, people who want to attack other members of this site with insults (and this includes Firaxis) are just breaking the rules that they have agreed to by becoming a member.

Again, if people don't like this policy, they can go post thier personal attacks and insults somewhere else. There are many forums where you can do it. They aren't allowed here.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE!

**Venger** · December 15, 2001, 20:39

Originally posted by Ming
First... this thread is being moved to the Apoltyon Forum where ALL complaints about mods belong.

And where Firaxis won't see it...

And did sombody complain about a moderator? I haven't seen one.

Second... Threads that flame any member... and that includes posters from Firixas will be closed/deleted.

So is that what happened? How about fessing up, if you have the sack to?

Third... Spam isn't allowed.

Spam? Give us a break, how does AH still even have an account here?

When there are already Multiple Threads on a given subject, additional thread will be closed/deleted.

Can you point me then to the ONE thread on corruption?

If you want to complain, feel free to contact the Amin on this subject!

Oh yes, I'm sure the self policing between you two would result in something being done...

Venger

**Ming** · December 15, 2001, 20:41

Originally posted by Venger
That said, can you offer any other explanation as to what happened? My money is on Ming deleting the thread because they wan't a Firaxis friendly forum.

Firxas friendly... HA HA HA HA. Again, read through the multiple negative threads that are in plain sight in the General Forum.
If people are just going to start their own thread on a subject that has already been beaten to death, it will disappear or be closed. How hard is it to find one of the numerous threads already on the subject, and post it there

**Venger** · December 15, 2001, 20:47

Originally posted by Ming
Firxas friendly... HA HA HA HA. Again, read through the multiple negative threads that are in plain sight in the General Forum.
If people are just going to start their own thread on a subject that has already been beaten to death, it will disappear or be closed.

Then close it. Deleting it changes the nature of these forums.

How hard is it to find one of the numerous threads already on the subject, and post it there

Because tacking on a post to a stale 3 page thread that has run it's course doesn't do anyone any good.

Venger

**Ming** · December 15, 2001, 20:49

Originally posted by Venger
And where Firaxis won't see it...

Uhhh... if that had been the case, I would have deleted it and not left the redirect... But, ALL complaints about moderation are ALWAYS moved to this forum... no exceptions.

So is that what happened? How about fessing up, if you have the sack to?

Didn't I post the reasons in this thread already????

Spam? Give us a break, how does AH still even have an account here?

He has the same right to keep posting as you do? Your point?

Can you point me then to the ONE thread on corruption?

Why, cant' you find one on your own? Lord knows there are already enough of them.

Oh yes, I'm sure the self policing between you two would result in something being done...

If you have a valid complaint, the Admin will listen to you and take action. They have done so on many occasions.
So again, feel free to make your complaints.

**Terser** · December 15, 2001, 20:49

Originally posted by Ming

There was NO need for ANOTHER thread on the subject, and it added NOTHING new to the discussion. Peoplo are just cluttering up the forum because they are either too lazy to post their thoughts in one of the MANY threads already on the subject, or are just interested in seeing a thread with their name on it.
The biggest number of complaints I receive (besides flaming and personal attacks) is the clutter in the Civ III general forum.
Just doing my job.

Then Ming...consider this. What are the hot button issues in CivIII right now?

Corruption
Combat system
Cultural assimilation of cities
War weariness

And others to be sure. Establish threads such as "Discuss corruption and its' affect on gameplay here" and publicly announce (in that thread or another) that all other threads began on that subject will immediately be deleted. When the thread gets too long for easy reading, publicly announce that you are going to have to delete it.

I would be for such a system, because I agree that the forum is too cluttered with redundant threads. An open system like this would work much better than simply deleting threads on a continuous basis, and it would help curb accusations that the mods are cherrypicking which threads they chose to eliminate.

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