What's your opinion on post counts?

[Winston]

Today, in another context, it occured to me that we haven't really had an extensive debate of the pros and cons of having a system of post counting.

It's evident that many posters have an opinion of the post count system - we can tell from the numerous times it's mentioned in threads, whether it's a poster who shares his joy of having reached a thousand posts, or one poster accusing another of being obsessed with his post count.

The interesting question in my opinion is this: Are there enough posters who support having a post count system that can justify keeping it? We don't really know, since we haven't had a real debate on it.

(I note of course that even in the unlikely event of all posters wanting to abolish post counts, it would still be exclusively for Dan and Markos to decide, since it is their site. So this is just an attempt to weigh the support of the post counts among the posters, for the admins to act on - or not - as they see fit.)

I for one would like to see the forums rid of post counts entirely. I don't believe they serve any useful purpose but instead:

• encourage spam
• increase the bickering about reductions/lost posts/mutual accusations of spamming
• provide more work for the moderators of the OT trying to keep the notorious spammers and "fun posters" at bay

The forums would be better off without this system. Useful debates and amusing subjects would continue to co-exist, but we'd be without a lot of the meaningless five words posts, which no one would miss anyway because they're only important to the person who made the post - and to his post count.

What's your opinion? Would you like to keep the present system of post counts, or would you rather be without it?

---
Informal poll so far:

Let's keep the post counts: 8
Get rid of the post counts: 10
Indifferent to post counts: 3

Up to and including SlowThinker's post

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by winston (edited February 28, 2001).]</font>

[Chaos Warrior]

I vote for the second, let's get rid of them

I'm trying hard to get mine high, but it earsn me nothing but trouble

let's get rid of them, it will be the best for all

[Ming]

I like the post count system and the titles that go along with them (spoken like a true Deity )

I really think they add to the total sense of the community called Apolyton.
But I also like them for another practical reason.
The post reduction is another weapon in our arsenal for maintaining the rules...
Granted, many don't care, and it isn't much of a threat, but it does matter to many... as can usually be seen by the complaints people make every time somebody gets one

[Chaos Warrior]

I don't see any reason for post counting... Can you count an objective reason to support the system, Ming?

[Ming]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Chaos Warrior on 02-12-2001 04:18 PM</font>
I don't see any reason for post counting... Can you count an objective reason to support the system, Ming?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I thought I gave two? Both of which I truely believe are good reasons!

[Winston]

But in what way do you think post counts add to the sense of community Ming? Wouldn't you say that it's the content of posts rather than how many you've made in the past that's adding to the community?

And why on Earth keep the post counts just so you can reduce them? If they weren't a factor, people would have a lot less rules to break, wouldn't they?

[Chaos Warrior]

Sorry Ming, must have been stoned

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 02-12-2001 04:13 PM</font>
I like the post count system and the titles that go along with them (spoken like a true Deity )

I really think they add to the total sense of the community called Apolyton.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

now this is not a reason I consider a good one. I mean, you put it as a traditional thing, don't you. Well, that's not a true reason for actually having them, IMHO

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>But I also like them for another practical reason.
The post reduction is another weapon in our arsenal for maintaining the rules...
Granted, many don't care, and it isn't much of a threat, but it does matter to many... as can usually be seen by the complaints people make every time somebody gets one
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

OK, this one makes real sense
If there wasn't any system for you mods n admins to play God , it would be harder to keep order on the board. But I'm sure there are other possibilites to punish... just banning will do it, don't you think?

[Chaos Warrior]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by winston on 02-12-2001 04:33 PM</font>
And why on Earth keep the post counts just so you can reduce them? If they weren't a factor, people would have a lot less rules to break, wouldn't they?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

well, there will always be spammers, als owithout post counts... and the admins have more control over them when they're able to punish them. but vacationsshould be just fine here.

[Paul]

As far as I'm concerned you can get rid of the post counts.

If you want civish titles you could also base them on how long people have been registed, for example become a chieftain after a month, warlord after three months etc.

And postcount reductions only have an effect on people who spam to raise their postcount in the first place. If there are spammers who just like to spam, but don't care about postcount they also won't be stopped by the thread of a reduction.

[Ming]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by winston on 02-12-2001 04:33 PM</font>
But in what way do you think post counts add to the sense of community Ming? Wouldn't you say that it's the content of posts rather than how many you've made in the past that's adding to the community?
And why on Earth keep the post counts just so you can reduce them? If they weren't a factor, people would have a lot less rules to break, wouldn't they?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Your last question first...
People are going to spam whether it adds to their post count or not. Yes, it matters to some, but many just want to see there name in "lights". They distrupt normally good discussions (or attempt to) just because they can. Our options now are a warning (which never seems to do much good against the hard cores), a post count reduction (which works for some) or a restriction (which works, but only until they come back) I like having the extra weapon.

As to the first...
I will agree with you that content is far more important than raw number. And I will also say that some of the best things posted on the on topic forums comes from some of the newbees... so post counts/titles are a not measure of really anything.

But for some, the titles (which do come from the raw number of post) makes them feel like they have contributed to the site. They are proud they have had stuff to contribute... comments... strategies... analysis... or even raising questions that others can answer.

Many sites use titles/post counts as badges of honor...
Apolyton is a community... and it's just another way of belonging for some people.

[Winston]

I agree with Paul, that the people who spam regardless of post counts won't be intimidated by the threat of a reduction.

As for the people who spam because of their post count: If the post counts weren't there to begin with, they'd behave and there'd be little need for reductions.

There Ming, we've run circles around you logically! Keeping post counts in order to be able to reduce them at some point just doesn't cut it.

As for the community thing, we agree that content is more important than number of posts. Now I won't rule out that post counts themselves have a "comforting" effect on some, but since this is first and foremost a civ-site, on topic posts are what really count. And you hardly ever hear on topic posters pay attention to post counts. One single post like oedo's xxxo post can make a World of difference, post counts or not.

And if we were to get rid of post counts, I bet no one would dread it after one month - quite the contrary, we'd get a qualitatively richer, more community-like set of forums as a free bonus.

[Eli]

Post counts = more posts

As someone already explained once this what causes people to make that extra post. And this keeps many(much more than you think) people as frequent visitors.

So this is good for Apolyton.


Keep the post counts!

[Chris 62]

How about this: keep the count for those who want it, but give a choice of something else(or nothing at all) for others. I think the people who care about it will scream that this is a bad idea, but at least you will know where they stand. From my time here, I notice that the most active in the post counts are quite often the most disruptive in the posts(The Word association thread is an example of this). Ming makes a good argument for keeping it, and I don't think that the titles are bad, it just seems the quest for higher titles is the problem. If I have to choose having them or not, I say keep them. The jerks will just find another way to ruin things.

------------------
All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Chaos Warrior]

Eli, that logic appears a bit odd to me

I think you only want to keep your post count! Look at me, I'd have no problem giving it away, although I'm very close to Emperor!

[Ming]

Hmmm... now that the drive home from work is done...

Winston... You are making my head hurt just reading your post
But seriously, PR's are still a good threat... While I agree with your circle logic on spammers and post count, there are many people that care about post counts who aren't spammers... for them, it is effective. (No spamming is only ONE of the rules here)

Eli brings up a good point too. It does encourage posing... and from a traffic perspective... it's a good thing for Apolyton. Now granted, one might use that logic to say everybody should spam... but more traffic and more spam are two different things...