Discussion: Coups, etc

[Octavian X]

That sounds good.

I also agree with GT, in that the ban on positons for a failed coup leader can be lifted by a vote of the Politburo vote.

[Drogue]

However, since there are unlikely to be any positions available between the time of the coup and the next election there seems to be little point in having it lifted.

[Hercules]

We shall see. One would be surprised at how suddenly vacancies can arise

[Maniac]

I have two questions about Drogue's proposal:

Do the General Secretary and Chairman also get 3 votes for being in the Politburo besides their usual 5 and 4 votes? I certainly hope so, as otherwise it would be possible for an official to accumulate 8 votes (three union secretary, three politburo and two republican secretary) while the GS would only have five. We can't have that, can we! Under that system I would also forbid the Chairman to be First Secretary of a Union Republic for the same reason.

Also, how would elections be dealt with in such a coup system? Wouldn't there be any elections at all anymore, would elections for all offices be done at the end of each month (even if a coup just happened three days ago) or would it be that elections for an office are held whenever the same official holds the office for thirty consecutive days (In time this would result in elections spread over the entire month) ?

[Octavian X]

Yes, I'd forbid cummulative votes that result from being on the Politurbo. The Secretaries, GS, and Chairman would all get their regular vote amounts from those postions. Secretaries of the Republics who also happen to be Politurbo members would get three votes, instead of their normal two.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Do the General Secretary and Chairman also get 3 votes for being in the Politburo besides their usual 5 and 4 votes? I certainly hope so, as otherwise it would be possible for an official to accumulate 8 votes (three union secretary, three politburo and two republican secretary) while the GS would only have five. We can't have that, can we! Under that system I would also forbid the Chairman to be First Secretary of a Union Republic for the same reason.

Yes. You get the amount for each position you hold. I would also support having the Chairman unable to be a First Secretary. You have the power of all those positions, exactly the same as if multiple people held those positions. Therefore you should have all those votes.

Therefore the most anyone can get is 10 (8 as you pointed out, or for being the GS, and 2 for it being your current position that is being contested).

Originally posted by Maniac
Also, how would elections be dealt with in such a coup system? Wouldn't there be any elections at all anymore, would elections for all offices be done at the end of each month (even if a coup just happened three days ago) or would it be that elections for an office are held whenever the same official holds the office for thirty consecutive days (In time this would result in elections spread over the entire month) ?

I would say forget the elections. This is the Hive. We run Police State, not democracy. Elections to start with, but from now on, coups should be the way

[GeneralTacticus]

So... does anyone have any objections to Drogue's proposal, or should it be put to a poll so that we can finally have a working system?

[Hercules]

It looks good but I think the system should be subject to the possibility of a two thirds majority constitutional review if it proves impossible in practice to achieve a coup. But not before MY2140.

[Phenix]

Seems like a decent system to divide the gov positions.

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by Hercules
It looks good but I think the system should be subject to the possibility of a two thirds majority constitutional review if it proves impossible in practice to achieve a coup. But not before MY2140.

I don't see why it would prove impossible; you just have to persuade enough powerful people to support you. And that's as it should be.

[Octavian X]

I think we can just change the system by vote as needed. I really don't think we should be adding stuff to the constitution about overthrowing those in power...

[Chaunk]

I would like to propose that we can only have one coup attempt on one position at a time, and only one coup attempt per position in five years. It seems to me that multiple attempts are currently possible, and the shear logistics of such a monstrosity are murdurous to even think about.
Also, the five year rule would mean that if someone is successful in a coup, they do at least get some time to enjoy it!

Just my thoughts

C

[Drogue]

Do we still have elections? Or should we just have coups? If we only have coups, how long from when you launch one can you launch the next?

My opinions: I would say if you fail you should have your positions stripped (and given to the person you tried to overthrow, to choose who gets it) and be banned from trying another coup for 2 weeks. Or we could do it realistically and have no time limit, therefore you can launch another the next day if you wish. Since you could in RL. However if you launch too many, people will just vote for the other person as they are obviously power-hungry. If a member wished to resign, they can gift the position to whomever they want.

Chaunk: We cannot do it in 5 years, since we play 7 years per turnchat, if we do it like lasttime. I think it's best to do it as a time in RL, such as a week, or two weeks.

[Nubclear]

I think anyone should be allowed to coup at anytime (though obvoiusly if you failed the first time, trying it again two minutes later will fail).

Failure results in punishment by whomever they tried to coup.

[Drogue]

Punishment? What sort?