Yang the MONSTER!!!

[Mongoose]

Hive does NOT have +2 EFFICIENCY running Police/Green/Wealth. Hive's Immunity effect is applied to the SUM of SE effects, not to individual lines. The above SE configuration yields a 0 EFFICIENCY rating for Yang, just as it does for any other faction without an inherent EFFICIENCY attribute.

[CEO Aaron]

Well, I guess I learned my something new for the day. Thanks, 'goose. Nevertheless, I think Yang is better served by ICS than by an energy park. If you can do both, of course....

[Lazerus]

I'm still stuck between organising my gameplay around either packing Hive bases extra tight for that increase in security or having them slightly spaced for each base to get a bigger industry ... choices choices
I agree with the energy park not being best choice for Yang. Have tried it numerous times and while it does seem fun to see a Hive base producing so much it always seems better to just behave as a swarm, making up for the lack of 1 super base by having 10 ordinary bases, besides your industry is far greater in this case and all your eggs aint in 1 basket ... mmm easter soon

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
Green/Police/Wealth.

Why Green? Doesn't that take away your growth bonus?

I always go Police/Planned/Wealth - this enhances the Hive's natural Growth and Industry to a formidable +3 Growth, +3 Industry and minimizes the Econ hit somewhat.

[CEO Aaron]

Well, as Mongoose pointed out, there's no reason for Yang to run Green, as his efficiency is zeroed after the effects of police and planned, so basically forget everything I said... except that Yang's best way of getting tech is specialists, since they're unaffected by his economy rating.

[waab]

I must agree with Alinestra Covelia go Police/planned/wealth(mayby knowledge)

Sure Hives econ is worthless but you do not need to build recration commons and other buildings to keep your population in check. So that money you saw you can buy tech of other and so one.

Somebody pointed out that you need to find other player early, I will agree but only because I always end up around some other factions, I don't know how it is to not find any other player

If you like to play long games (like me) go with eudaimonic, and you will have really fun...

[Qualicide]

Personally I think the drones can out produce the hive.

[Lazerus]

Well obviously they have a higher industry rating early game advantage though is that the Hive can quickly terraform land and have a decent defense with its support bonus + the Hive can survive alone whereas the Drones need somebody to trade/steal techs from.

[Qualicide]

The drones have good reserch, not hive. Just put on free market.

[Lazerus]

I'm not exactly an experienced Drone player but even running FM they wouldnt beat the Hive by much if at all for research would they ? They'd be needing to make plenty more energy then the Hive to cover their -2 research bonus and the fact they'd lose their industry advantage over the Hive would mean infrastructure wise the Hive would be ahead (more formers easily supported so better gathering from land) and they'd most likely be running planned so a higher growth with excess pop switched to specialists ?
I'm due to try out a game as the Drones soon so we'll see then, I prefer the high industry over economy civs.

[CEO Aaron]

Sadly, Lazerus, they _can_ out research the Hive while running Free Market. A small example: each faction has a size 3 base, farming from 3 tree squares. Including the base square, Yang running planned police wealth will get 5 energy, 6 if he's got RTanks. The Domai base will have 10 energy, 11 with Tanks. Even after paying off the 20% reduction in research, his base is socking away 4 energy, minimum, to your 3, maximum, toward labs. Having network nodes only exaggerates this difference, 6 labs to 4.

Now, FM has plenty of drawbacks to counteract the huge advantage that the extra economy offers. Worms are going to be a hassle wherever they show up, because your attempts to kill them and cash in the minerals are going to be a coin-toss at best, and of course any protracted military operations in enemy territory are going to wreak havok with your bases in terms of drone riots.

Yang, on the other hand, can field a large former force and still have a respectable exploratory force in the field, working on harvesting Unity pods to close the technology and energy gap. Killing worms, popping pods and cashing in artifacts are free tech, that by and large, your free marketeer will rarely see.

[Lazerus]

In an MP game I'm currently playing I'm the Hive while the Drones are my ally. We're equal on techs and power but his tech cost is 3 times that of myself, so I'm researching faster Granted I don't think he is running FM, but in these early stages of the game I don't think +1 energy per square is going to increase his production that much

Also wouldn't Drones only be 10 with Rtanks ?

I tend to steer clear of playing the game as a maths project and just enjoy watching the minerals make planet scream then go out killing stuff

[CEO Aaron]

Remember that every level of economy you gain above 0 increases the energy production in your base square by one as well, in addition to any other stated effects. That's where Domai is getting the extra energy you can't account for.

As for your real-world example, I don't know what your relative level of infrastructure development is, nor the relative number of your bases, nor what your terraforming model may be, so it's very hard to derive any conclusions from it. I think the powergraph is very skewed, since it takes into account some very ephemeral values, such as current stockpile of EC's and known techs.

I don't typically approach the game as a mathematical exercise either, but I needed a small example to illustrate what an extra energy per worked square can do for you, even in a small scale.

[Frankychan]

Hmmm......to address the Social Engineering comments...

Does running Wealth have greater benefits than running Knowledge?

I tend to have Police State/Planned (Growth when mindworm attacks become unbearable)/Knowledge. Usually I'm allied with Zak and running Knowledge just cements our pact. When I choose Wealth, everyone seems to pick on me up to the point where I have to switch.

I know Knowledge does have the probe problem, but that's why I usually beeline research to the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm SP. Is that o.k. or is there an easier way?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Lazerus
.... Granted I don't think he is running FM, but in these early stages of the game I don't think +1 energy per square is going to increase his production that much

Actually the early game is when FM makes a big difference. Consider a forest square, which produces %100 more energy under FM in the early going, or a plain tile, which produces no energy normally, but produces one with FM. This marginal advantage can slip to almost non-existent with heavy terraforming later in the game. For instance the advantage to running FM when the only squares you are working are boreholes isn't worth the effort.