Hendrick's Bane

[Capt Dizle]

The excellant Morgan's Builder game offered by Hendrick has awakened an interest in me to defend Zak's honor. Therefore, by way of experimentation and not competition, I have taken his game and made a scenario from it named Hendrick's Bane.

I have switched the starting positions of Morgan and Zak and will play the University from Hendrick's position to see if I can establish how the two factions stack up in a pure builder sense. Hendrick transcended in 2236 and I looked at the game closely and concluded that he played very well. I put my chances at being competitive with him at about 1 in 4.

Even if he proves to be the better player, I will need still more evidence that Morgan is the best pure builder.

Status Report: MY 2130

Pop 8, Techs 8, FM, 50% each with income of 12 and techs every 7 with IA in 3 turns.

7 bases with 2 pods on the move and 4 being produced.
1 bases has tanks, no other infrastructure built.
1 ogre, 1 mining laser, 1 probe, 1 scout, 1 scout chopper, 2 artifacts.

My first 3 formers are in production. I went for SOTHB for the free tech and because I had no intention of building crawlers right away. I will of course switch all production to formers and crawlers when the last CPs roll off and begin to hunt projects.

Using the Sikander base layout with some minor mods due to terrain.

Long term strategy: 24 core bases fully developed, SSC and energy park. Hoping to be able to induce GA pop boom and get some commerce income. Pray for science to trump the capitalist.

jt

[Capt Dizle]

Status Report: MY 2150

Pop 25, Techs 16, Demo/FM/Wealth, 50% each with income of 46 and techs every 8 with EE(tree farms) in 7 turns.

4 commerce!

13 bases and 1 pod being produced.
1 bases has tanks, no other infrastructure built.
1 ogre, 1 mining laser, 1 probe, 1 scout, 1 scout chopper, 3 artifacts, 1 unity rover, 9 formers and 8 crawlers

Special Projects: HGP

Producing crawlers at 12 bases. Had a terrible time with bdrones till I got Demo and the HGP built. Lal showed up one turn before the both of us was to build the HGP. He offered a war pact against the Spartans which I accepted. This was an easy decision as Lal is the closest AI, the second strongest and I knew the Spartans remote location from salvage of the Unity wreckage. The pact led to acquistion of 3 techs by trade.

Next turn after I beat Lal to the HGP (upgrade 3 crawlers to trance for 50ec each to net 135 minerals on the turn before) instead of switching production to the VW or PTS, both of which he could have done from tech I gave him, Lal instead switched off to a rover. Gotta love the AI.

Miriam just started the WP. No other contacts.

jt

Edit to correct population total.

[Hendrik]

Good luck! Oh and could you possibly attach some saves?

[Capt Dizle]

I'll try!

Edit: In comparing my start with Hendrick at 2152 it looks like I am fighting an uphill battle. Morg has built more bases, more formers, more crawlers, has much more terraforming done. Much more infrastructure. Morg has two mined mineral rocky specials hooked up and as a result two high mineral bases, 23 and 15 iirc, wheras my best bases are struggling at 8 or so. I only got one of those precious rocky specials and have not set it up yet.

Doesn't look good. The only lead I have is in tech and its not significant at this point.

Still, I don't have to build net nodes nor will I have to struggle with the hab limits. Slim chance perhaps if Hendrick's play slipped somewhere.

I hate corporate pigs.

[Archaic]

I'd love to get a copy of this scenario too. I'm about to restart my builder game from sikander's save (I made too many mistakes in the mid-game that I want to fix), and I wouldn't mind trying this either, to compare playstyles. I'd be most interested to know which opening beeline ends up being better, IA or SotHB.

[Capt Dizle]

Let us try this again........

[Capt Dizle]

and again...

[Capt Dizle]

and again...cause I don't know how to attach more than one file per post.

[Capt Dizle]

This is the starting save for Archaic.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Archaic
I'd love to get a copy of this scenario too. I'm about to restart my builder game from sikander's save (I made too many mistakes in the mid-game that I want to fix), and I wouldn't mind trying this either, to compare playstyles. I'd be most interested to know which opening beeline ends up being better, IA or SotHB.

In experimenting with Uni starts on various maps I have been able to get IA as early as 2110. But what are you going to do with it? You have only two bases and no money to switch SE.

You can get to IA pretty fast with Morgan. Ogie, I think posted the beeline some time ago.

The following is a copy from that thread:

A little bit more on Beeline strategies when considering directed research. Although this is not considered new information by any stretch of the imagination, it does bear repeating. Beelines as established take this into consideration, but for those of you like me who play without a guide sitting in front of you.

Consider Industrial Auto as your targeted tech.

The game will not allow you to choose successive techs of the same type (most of the time at least) and as a result you must alternate between tech types in order to beeline as quickly as possible.

For the IA example above (the shortest beeline then becomes)

Prereqs are:
1st tech to discover Industrial Base -(B1 Prereq for Industrial Econ B2)

Tech avaialable to choose then becomes (as B2 is not shown)

2nd tech Net Nodes - D1 prereq for Planetary Networks D2

3rd tech Industrial Econ (Planetary Networks not available) - B2

4th tech Planetary networks - D2

5th tech Industrial Automation - B3

Notice the pattern B1,D1,B2,D2,B3. You don't see a B1,B2 or a B2,B3 combination as the game doesn't offer the successive build tech normally as an option.

If anyone has any info to the contrary I would be most interested, but all my play experience indicates this is the case. As a result, the beeline to IA then for a few select factions should be:

Gaians: Start tech Centauri Ecology E1
Beeline to IA is as above namely B1 (industrial base),D1(net nodes),B2(industrial econ),D2(planetary networks),B3 (IA)

Lal: start tech is Biogenetics
Same as above

Morgan & Domai: Start tech is Industrial Base
1st -Beeline is d1 net node
2nd - B2 Industrial Econs
3rd - D2 planetary networks
4th - B3 IA

Data Angels - Start tech is net nodes and planetary networks
1st tech Beelines is B1 Industrial Base
2nd Any other tech other than build (suggest Centauri Ecology E1)
3rd tech B2 - Industrial Econ
4th tech (any other tech other than Build)
5th tech B3 IA

Uop - Start tech is Net nodes
Free tech is Industrial Base
1st tech is B2 Industrial Econ
2nd tech is D2 Planetary Networks
3rd tech is B3 IA.

Note: For the first 3 or so tech UoP researchs at rates of 3-4 turns/tech so in doing the above UoP can get to IA by no later than 2113.

You don't necessarily need to have a beeline mapping out the techs in front of you just remember to plan your discoveries of prereqs accordingly such that the last prereq discovered is not of the same type as your desired target tech else you'll be delayed by having to discover another tech before your allowed to have the target tech as a valid choice

_______________

If the above is wrong blame Ogie or whoever I stole it from.

jt

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

It is wrong and doesn't always hold true but for the most part it does most of the time.

So blame me or sue me your choice.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
In experimenting with Uni starts on various maps I have been able to get IA as early as 2110. But what are you going to do with it? You have only two bases and no money to switch SE.

Hope for Pod Pops I suppose. I'd rather have the tech just in case and then try and rush for SotHB (Which the Uni still has a decent chance of picking up after an IA beeline) then to have to wait.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Hey jimmytrick, is that theory for tech advance choice actually proven? I know a lot of people who would like to get a handle on how the computer selects choices for the player...

Best of luck with Hendrik's Bane!

[Googlie]

jt:

There's a problem with beer run 2101 (to be played as Morgan) - you didn't reset all techs in the Hendrick's Bane scenario when you changed from Uni to Morgan, so now Morgan can go Planned, and as well starts off with the free tech

G.

[Googlie]

Hmm - what am I havering about?

The faction is still the Uni, but the starting units are homed to Morgan Industries (another way of getting a free scout?) That's what threw me

G.