Zsozso's attempt at fastest transcend on huge map

[Capt Dizle]

88 bases oh my

[MariOne]

I had a tentative, non-intensive test run with 7 zaks before JT and ZZ posted it.

I had even thought to play that as a 7-self-hotseat, profiting of the dafault human pbem communication setting, allowing contact (and trade!) from the get go.
That would have allowed to trade techs at once, and picking a different UNI bonus starting tech for each zak, that should have given an impressive kick start, with the caveat that you first have to discover one if you don't want the tech cost to skyrocket even before you start the next one....

I chose to go with a normal singleplayer tho.
Went for Cpods only, almost no unit, not facilities, not even formers.
When I got IndAuto, the inner bases began to produce crawlers to get some project in the HQ, and some formers as their growth began to leave them short of usable tiles to work.

I didn't balance that approach tho, so I could get the EG only around '45.
I can tell you tho that by giving in to any request, , then trading, then offering all my techs to everyzak, I managed to rake in 6-8 new techs, sign Pact with everyone and become governor on the same turn I got the EG.
(apart the tech boost at first contact tho, even 6 magnanimous Pacted Zaks won't contribute more than one tech every 10 years or so, albeit you constantly keep them updated...)

Not playing it intensively tho, I was nowhere near ZZ development levels, before I let that "pilot" attempt down.

I think that balancing Cpods/formers/crawlers/facilities production is the key to that approach and it doesn't require just micromanagement skills, but really a true global "Vision" of the game...

[Capt Dizle]

Mose, in what order did you go for the SPs. I tend to go HGP, WP, ME, PEG, VW, and then EG.

There is an optimal number of developed bases to have and that it is important to get them up in the right timeframe. But I am not yet settled on that timeframe. I tend to make too few, which leads to a spectacular game till you realize that you aren't getting enough tech to supplement your SSC.

If you make too many your vertical growth is hindered.

One point I have settled on. Lots of formers, many more than you would build in a normal game.

Eight eight bases is insane though. There has to be a more elegant solution than that.

[zsozso]

My opinion about the optimal strategy after this attempt:
1. In early stage keep building C.pods and plant them very tight,
stay out of Dem. to get the 10 minerals for new bases. You should build some formers too, after Cpods in inner bases and build roads to speedup migration of new colony pods outward

2. When you have Ind.Auto and a good number of bases, switch to making more formers and crawlers and build some important SPs, e.g. WP, PTS and EG. The shape and size of available territory will determine what is a good number of bases, I would say around 20-30. Once you get EG make yourself governor, try to pact everybody (be nice to them) and trade as much as you can.

3. Then beeline for orbital base improvements, then Digital Sentience (Cybernetic) while building more colony pods again.

4. Build energy parks only at the endgame (for the last 20-25 techs) when you have lots of formers, they are all super-formers, build magtube bacbone to allow instant movements.

MariOne, in my current game the pirates practically never contribute techs (they gave me maybe 1 or 2 at early stages, nothing since then). Nevertheless, they are still very useful, because I sell them my techs each time, not gift them! This way I can get a lot of extra energy from them, apart from the commerce income. In only give techs as gift if they demand. For this reason, it might be worth to throw in some Morgans as well among the Zaks for opponents. They maybe able to give even more energy...

[Capt Dizle]

zsozso, how do you keep all those pacts when you are so far ahead on the power graph?

[zsozso]

Probably the citizen level has a lot to do with being able to keep the pacts.
OTOH, I have not only given them whatever they asked for, but also gifted them at least 4 bases (at pop 3) each - they must be happy about that...

[Archaic]

It's the citizen level. Those guys will stay Pacted to you even if you're running the SE they can't use. And even on the rare occasions they do quit the pact, they'll come back at just an offer of good will and friendship.

[zsozso]

Statistics of my game standing:
Year 2191
Population: 719
Number of bases: 88
Technology: 76 (All the way, including Threshhold of Transcendence)
Researching: Frictionless surfaces (1 turn left), speed 3 turn/tech
Energy: 128, earning 6224/turn, allocation 0%labs, 100% economy
SE: democratic, green, wealth, eudaimonic
Secret Projects: Weather Paradigm, Planetary Transit System, Energy Grid,
Cloudbase Academy, Ascetic Virtues, Cloning Vats, Human Genome, Merchant Exchange, Supercollider, Universal Translator
Units: 105 formers, 24 sea formers, 1 scout, 2 unity rover, 13 worms, 7 spore launchers, 5 alien artifacts, 1 unity foil, 145 crawlers, 5 isle of deep, 1 laser skimship, 4 land transports, 3 supply ships, 5 destroyer transports

The game is practically over, because I just researched the Threshold of Transcendence and rushed in some drop-trans-fision-rover supply units (140 minerals worth a piece) into the "Voice of Planet" SP. In the last ten turns I was getting at least 2 techs each turn (plus bonus ones from secrets, UT SP and alien artifacts). I have plenty of supply units to be able to rush the Transcendence next turn, so I will transcend by 2193.

[zsozso]

So, the game is ended in 2193 by transcendence.
Here is the last save, just hit run complete.

I do not think I did the best job possible in this game. It could be done faster.
It was citizen level, which is much easier than transcend. Nevertheless, I believe, that it is possible to transcend within 100 turns on a huge map even on transcend level. I will try that next.

As I mentioned earlier, it is a fairly boring and tedious game . Playing fastest transcend challenge on tiny map is much more exciting and fun.

[Capt Dizle]

I daresay a sub 100 turn transcend on transcend is impossible outside of some freak event. On huge.

[zsozso]

JT, you could be right, but I try anyway...

For the early ICS, the most important factor is food production, because you can't build a cpod until you've grown to pop2 and there is no way to "rush" the growth. So, it is best to start where lots of nuts are available: the jungle.
So I started my huge map fast transcend on transcend level game on the "Huge Map of Planet" - because this way a know where the jungle is. I kept starting a new game until I got placed pretty close to the jungle (world map visible from unity survey). I'm playing Zak, opponents: 3 Zaks, 3 Morgans.

I do not have time now to report exact stats for each save, just the bottomline:
Year 2151, 19 bases, 34 pop, 23 techs, 2 SPs: EG and VW, getting PTS rushed next turn. I'm governor with 1 pact (with a Morgan), 4 treaties and 1 truce (with a Zak on my continent).

One thing that pissed me off: I met the Zak who started on my continent by scouting, when he saw me, the first thing was he declared vendetta. He didn't even demand anything, just right away pronounced vendetta. That's what I call love at first sight Later I managed to bribe him to a truce - I do not want to waste production on war. But he wouldn't sign a treaty and doesn't even talk to me recently. That could become trouble.

Tha attached zip file has saves from 2101, 2123, 2132, 2141 and 2151.

[Capt Dizle]

Jungle huh. Cheese!

Picking 3 Morgs could be very smart if they survive they may be a good source of commerce.

Okay, I'll retract my statement. It might be possible if you play the jungle bunny.

I will have to see it to believe it though. And I do wish you would write a narrative so that we can follow your strategy a little better.

[Hendrik]

I think you will have a much harder time ICSing with Zack than you did with Deidre because on transcend the drones are so bad... I would be surprised if you transcended sooner than year 120 from looking at the saves right now.

Either way good luck... the Jungle does make a surprisingly large difference in the early game expansion process.

[zsozso]

Brief narrative that I skipped in the morning:

-2111. Early stage strategy: maximized ICS, i.e. build nothing else but c.pods,
plant them as tight as terrain allows, no terraforming, use the jungle.
In the meantime go pod-popping with the indepenent scout.
Got the comlink freq of Zak3, traded techs and signed treaty.
One pod proliferated a good part (5 tiles) of the jungle with forest - excellent!
It will grow taking care of my early terraforming needs
Tech beeline target: Ind.Auto. for crawlers, Wealth and PTS (FM along the way)

-2123. ICS going on, 4 bases so far, next 3 pods getting ready for launch,
managed to switch on FM and Wealth, 7 turn/tech, researching Eco.Eng.
Popped an alien artifact, will link it up as soon as it walks back to base.
Tech beeline target: Cent.Emp. (for Empath Guild)

-2132. Still ICS on full throttle, 8 bases, plus 3 pods moving to their places.
Switch SE to demo/planned/wealth for faster growth and pod building.
Got 15 techs using AA and trades, but it hit my cost so that I get 22 turns/tech.
(although it would be 13 with FM).
Met Zak2 north of the jungle (he must be around the boreholes somewhere), hates me
on first sight - vendetta. Bribed him to a truce with couple of tech gifts.

-2141. 14 bases, inner ones switched to crawler production, first SP target EG just
rushed in last turn. Made treaties with everybody else (Zak2 is still on truce),
traded techs and gifted some, plus sold some to Morgans. Cash flow greatly improved!
Elected myself governor (barely, with 33 of my votes against 32 of collected votes
for my opponent - the bastards almost all voted for him!).

-2151. Major SP building phase, got EG, VW and now rushing PTS next turn: already
upgraded 5 crawlers to trance, that should be enough with some cash added.
Unfortunately, Zak3 completes HG next turn, so I'll miss that. I'll make WP after.
I have also produced some former, only 3 bases far north are still building cpods.
19 bases, 23 techs, demo/FM/wealth, income 76/turn, breakthroughs 8 turns.
Next beeline for cybernetic (knowledge), then super formers.

Hendrik, you are right, it would be tough to grow to 90+ bases with Zak on transcend. And I do not plan to. I did early ICS to get a headstart with the jungle. Now, I am swtiching to a balance of building science centers and energy parks, while still expanding a bit further horizontally ( i.e. more bases).

[Hendrik]

Well what I mean is that right now you don't have the terraformers, or the mineral production to make terraformers. A tight city spacing like you have would need a lot of boreholes to make it productive, and you will probably want to maximise the number of condensor/farms on the jungle... so it will be very difficult for you to get decent mineral production in those cities, which will make infrastructure come in more slowly.

This is probably the fastest that anyone can grow in the first 51 years. I am just curious as to how you will make each base productive when they are so tiny.

A very nice beginning though, between the Monsoon jungle and the early forest pod pop you had you were in very nice circumstances for building.

Super formers so early might make a significant difference in your speed, I am eager to see how you will deal with the huge choice of tech at your disposal.