Is Alpha Centauri Intellectually Discriminating?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Mr. President
Okay, maybe it's a little funny.

Humor is when bad things happen to other people.

[GeneralTacticus]

Is Alpha Centauri Intellectually Discriminating?

No. Being a Drone isn't indicative of being 'inferior', just not as productive and happy a citizen. Think of unemployed urban gangs vs. skilled techicians, scientists, academics etc. when you look at Drones vs. Talents.

Does this congure an image of the feudal pyramidical society? Is this New World Order in action?

Depending on the way you play the game, it's possible for almost everyone to become a talent (which incidentally, is something that Huxley viewed as impossible).

I agree. Maybe true happiness in a society is found without leaders or masters. But we are far from that, still got a lot to learn as a species.

I've never considered anarchy to be particularly cheerful...

The way I always saw the Telepathic Matrix video, it's not so much thought control as emotional influence - the Empathi project 'good vibes', dissuading people from committing violent acts and so on. So not actually tweaking their thoughts, but making them feel nicer.

I would see it as basically an implemantion of the BNW - no-one does anything wrong because no-one wants to. Dictatorship by choice.

[Kirov]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus

Depending on the way you play the game, it's possible for almost everyone to become a talent (which incidentally, is something that Huxley viewed as impossible).

Yeah, and look at the way they make workers from drones - the police and rec commons. I'm sure that Empaths are just a branch of security service.

I would see it as basically an implemantion of the BNW - no-one does anything wrong because no-one wants to. Dictatorship by choice.

IIRC, no-one could choose anything in BNW - they were all manipulated, created to be as they were. Hence there's no point in talking about free will there.

[GeneralTacticus]

IIRC, no-one could choose anything in BNW - they were all manipulated, created to be as they were. Hence there's no point in talking about free will there.

They were 'socially engineered' so that they could be given free will and they would still do what they were supposed to.

[Kirov]

Don't you find free will and doing what supposed to do mutually exclusive?

[Kirov]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


They were 'socially engineered' so that they could be given free will and they would still do what they were supposed to.

Oh, and IIRC they were not 'socially engineered', but simply 'engineered'

[GeneralTacticus]

Don't you find free will and doing what supposed to do mutually exclusive?

No. I am (or will be) supposed to pay taxes. At the same time, by choice, I can refuse to, or evade them. However, I can also choose to do as I am supposed to.

Oh, and IIRC they were not 'socially engineered', but simply 'engineered'

I was talking about the mental and social aspects, not the physical ones.

[Tommara]

Originally posted by Kirov
Don't you find free will and doing what supposed to do mutually exclusive?

That would be true only if you only want to do things you are not supposed to do.

Edited note: Forming sentences is hard before you've had enough coffee.

[Kirov]

To General Tacticus: Please correct if I'm wrong, but in the BNW they were engineered prenatally to do what supposed to do. Social engineering is only secondary to it. If you had been genetically engineered to pay taxes, then, although you would have had a choice of refusal (in the sense of physical capability to say 'no'), this choice would not have been real, because you wouldn't have even considered the refusal. Arachnophob has a choice whether to kiss a spider or not, but it's irrelevant, because he simply won't do this. It's not the real choice.
Uff, I hope it's correct English.

To Tommara: I see your point, but I disagree with you. If it's predictable you will do what you are supposed to do, you don't make real choices. You just do things, not choose to do them.

[Tommara]

Originally posted by Kirov


To Tommara: I see your point, but I disagree with you. If it's predictable you will do what you are supposed to do, you don't make real choices. You just do things, not choose to do them.

That is not what "mutually exclusive" means, so perhaps it's a language problem, although I viewed it as a math/logic problem.

See for example: http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/v...exclusive.html

Specifially:

Definition: Two events are mutually exclusive if they cannot occur at the same time (i.e. they have no outcomes in common).

Since one can most certainly exercise free will AND do what one is supposed to, they are not mutually exclusive propositions.

[Tommara]

On second thought, it also might depend upon what you meant (or how you defined) "free will" and "doing what one is supposed to". I'll go back and ponder that, but it might also help if you explicitly defined them.

[Tommara]

I think I see the problem. "Doing what you are supposed to do" has two different meanings.

One is "doing what is right/correct/proper" and is what I thought was meant.

The other does have the connotation of "doing what was intended" which might have been what you meant since you used the word "predictable".

Now I must go do what I'm supposed to be doing.

Edited note: Grrr. "Intended" as in pre-ordained, foretold, destined, etc. Words give me a headache sometimes, reminds me of why I abandoned liberal arts for engineering.

[bondetamp]

Can we really say that anyone has free will? Are we not just products of our genes and our experiences?

Truly, what matters aren't whether or not one has free will, but whether or not one maintain the illusion that one has.

Brave New World had no Talents or Drones in the sense presented in SMAC. There were no Drone revolts, or even hints of the possibility, and Talents? The intelectual elite was high on Soma or participating in orgies most of the time. It is a good while sinse I read the book, but I honestly can't remember a single time any of the Alpha Pluses did anything creative or inspiring. The whole system was geared towards preserving the status quo, and geniuses weren't only not needed, they were counter productive to such a policy.

[moomin]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Naturally, those sent to Alpha Centauri would have to be rather proficient in a number of fields - the technological and societal elite, if you like.

Don't be so sure. The Unity was an UN mission, after all - you can bet political correctness filled a lot of berths in that ship. Oh, you get the Einsteins and the von Brauns, but you get the Louis Farrakhans and Catharine MacKinnons as well. In fact, the latter category probably dominates in terms of crew numbers.

[Tommara]

Is Alpha Centauri Intellectually Discriminating?

No. Sometimes differences do make a difference.