Alfa Centauri - is it worth it?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Artifex
P.S. those jets like things are 10x more powerful than cavalry. Everyone in civ 3 thinks cavalry is too overpowered LOL. Once you got them it was only weapon you needed if my memory serves me (it's been 2 years lol). Just build them en masse and game is over.

It's not the jets, it's the helicopters. With their multiple attacks, they're way over-powered. Once I get to the point that I can start making them, the game starts turning in my favour, and I'm guarenteed to win the game. But at least getting to that point is a fun challenge!

[CEO Aaron]

Posted by Willem
It's not the jets, it's the helicopters. With their multiple attacks, they're way over-powered. Once I get to the point that I can start making them, the game starts turning in my favour, and I'm guarenteed to win the game. But at least getting to that point is a fun challenge!

I hate to differ with you here, but Needlejets are just as effective and useful as choppers, both of whom have their uses, I might add. Certainly choppers are exceedingly good at cutting down vast numbers of troops, especially low quality troops, but the needlejet can bomb improvements, have better range, and most importantly, block the passage of ground troops.

Both types of units are extremely effective, making interceptors or units with high armor and AAA worth the minerals you paid for them, but I wouldn't call either overpowered, at least no more overpowering than X-missile rovers are against those who don't have them.

The problem with Air power is the AI's apparently random selection of what types of units to build. I've fought a far more populous and technologically advanced Yang, simply because he would divert his considerable industrial might to all sorts of idiotic units, such as marines when all our cities are on the same landmass, or trance troops when I'm fielding no native units.

In addition, it seems like every unit the AI fields tends to have the most expensive armor and weaponry available. While this does make for a flexible army, a more balanced force of dedicated attack troops combined with garrisons to hold your winnings is, as we all know, far cheaper.

If the AI, or heavens forbid, the unit auto-designer could be rewired to make more effective troops, you might see a more challenging AI. Until then, the only challenge the AI will offer is co-opting early wonders to stunt your build climb.

[Willem]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron

I hate to differ with you here, but Needlejets are just as effective and useful as choppers, both of whom have their uses, I might add. Certainly choppers are exceedingly good at cutting down vast numbers of troops, especially low quality troops, but the needlejet can bomb improvements, have better range, and most importantly, block the passage of ground troops.

I find after awhile that Needlejets are pretty limited. The more I use them against a faction, the more AAA units I encounter. Plus they tend to get blown out of the sky by Interceptors, making a Needlejet attack very costly. Copters on the other hand can hit and run, returning to a base to heal for the next sortie.

... but I wouldn't call either overpowered, at least no more overpowering than X-missile rovers are against those who don't have them.

The main problem is the AI doesn't know how to use air power very well. I don't know how many times I'd see scads of Needlejets flying by, but they rarely attack me. And I seldom get attacked by Copters. Once I start getting a few air units in the field, especially Copters, I can always run away with the game, with little opposition. That's when it starts getting boring for me.

[Adalbertus]

I hate to differ with you here, but Needlejets are just as effective and useful as choppers, both of whom have their uses, I might add.

I disagree with the first half, and agree with the second. Overall, I see Choppers much more effective, not so much for the multiple attack but for their ability to retreat. I usually build clean s-gas choppers and clean SAM noodles. The noodles defend themselves when they are on their turn out. Depending on the tech levels, an attacker is lost or at least in a bad shape after attacking a SAM noodle (the AI likes it anyway). I use noodles for bombing and blocking, too but the main attack work - choppers. And it's easy to see which is the SAM and which the bomber.

[Blake]

I prefer elite infantry myself.... They cut through anything including bases with perimeter defense, areospace, AAA and COMM troops defending... (I tend to play challenge scenerios where the AI becomes strong enough to build these things before the player can get an overwhelming airpower advantage)

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Overall, I see Choppers much more effective, not so much for the multiple attack but for their ability to retreat. I usually build clean s-gas choppers and clean SAM noodles. The noodles defend themselves when they are on their turn out. Depending on the tech levels, an attacker is lost or at least in a bad shape after attacking a SAM noodle (the AI likes it anyway). I use noodles for bombing and blocking, too but the main attack work - choppers. And it's easy to see which is the SAM and which the bomber.

While I totally agree that choppers are far more powerful than jets and use a similar strategy in the sense that the bulk of my jets are interceptors after a while, I cannot agree with your assessment of the defensibility of a SAM noodle.

The way to kill airpower on the counterattack is simple . . . . SAM rovers. In an attack from a ground unit against an air unit, the air unit defends with its armour. With no defensive multipliers ( you are over enemy territory) the jet is a dead duck. If you can put on armour that exceeds your enemies available weapons, you must have such a tech advantage that tactics are almost irrelevant. Note that before your enemy has SAM abilities, your planes will have the strength you indicate. After, a laser rover takes down any regular plane and armouring te planes is almost never worthwhile.

I find that trying to build units with survivability ( in enemy territory) is a losing proposition with an enemy thats even close to you in tech although you will have a window if you are the first to fusion power. Otherwise, the discrepancy between available weapons and available armour just means that attackers generally win ( here I am talking about troops and planes outside their territory and therefore granted no defensive multipliers). Name the unit and there is always one (or some combination) that can pretty easily snuff it out.

While defense is feasible in your own bases, I have always thought that the best way to ensure the surviavability of an attack force is to attack hard and in numbers to kill that counterattack before they get a shot off

[Blake]

A good example is getting enough formers and rover formers to connect a magtube from your bases to the enemy bases and attack with elite infantry in the same turn. Your infantry can be best-1-1 (uber cheap) and the enemy never gets to fire a shot in retaliation. It is quite possible to conquer half of an empire in the first strike, or even all of a smaller empire. Each elite infantry destroys 1-2 defenders and it usually takes 2 super formers to lay 1 section of tube. If you have 30 formers you'll be able to lay a tube 15 segments long which is pretty far when you think about it (territory borders are around 6 tiles or somesuch), and consider that bases act as free tube making this especially effective against infantry spaced bases (like AI in jungle). Elite infantry on magtubes is the only thing more exploitive than choppers - because choppers have finite movement!

To illustrate, if you have 40 formers and around 40 elite infantry then the front will be moving forward 15-25 tiles per turn and choppers only move 10-15 tiles per turn, so clearly they'll be left far behind .

I also have to mention self destructing missiles and other units, if this tatic is abused ANY units left out in the cold (not in a base) can be quickly and cheaply eliminated. A 10-1-12*2 chopper costs 3 rows and when self destructed destroys all fission units in the adjacant tiles.

I have no idea what this has to do with the original topic, other than how exploitive some strategies are in SMAC!