Back from Civ3...

[Jethro83]

I sit on the fence between SMAC and Civ III.

Both have their advantages over each other.

And both have horrible, horrible mistakes.

So I like to go back and forth between them (though since installing Empire Earth, I've been into that instead of SMAC). Time to brush off the dust on my SMAC CD and play again methinks.

[Method]

there sure is nothing like a few months of civ 3 to make you appreciate SMAC

[Mongoose]

Originally posted by TKG
there sure is nothing like a few months of civ 3 to make you appreciate SMAC

AMEN!!

[Neptunus]

for SirVincealot Not only for expressing (or I should say mirroring) my (and many other people's) thoughts about the "Firaxian Evolution" from SMAc/X to CIVIII, but for looking at the whole issue from the right perspective. His post should be read by every member of the Firaxis team.

[gwillybj]

Firaxian De-volution? or, Regression?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by TKG
there sure is nothing like a few months of civ 3 to make you appreciate SMAC

All the annoited ones will return its just a matter of when.

[Talent]

"SMAC/X was and still is Firaxis masterpiece. It's a rare jewel in the gaming industry, an inspirational crescendo of unprecedented depth in concept, design and execution. "
YES!!!

you are so right my friend.
I just came back from a relatively short time playing CIV3 which broke my heart and made me spit (figuratively) in the face of Sid Meyer and all the bozos in the CIV 3 team!!! (Sid was obviously to busy designing his RIDICULOUS golf game to actually take the time to make a good game for us his REAL FANS!!... I mean who cares about a #$#@$^% golf game!!!)

I too remember the first game that I played on CIV2 with much fondness, with wondrous and beautiful music in the background so incredible was the experience ( I think I could almost name all my cities on that game and even PROBABLY EVEN!!! trace back my map) Such an incredible game it was!

when I first played SMAC I realised that this WAS IT!!

SMAC is still the best game out there and it still has above and beyond all the best elements, governements, diplomacy, etc...

I share your fear of a SMAC2, seeing what these idiots did to CIV with this bastardisation of a game, I am afraid that they can do no right and that if SMAC2 ever comes out it will be a pretty to look at WASTE OF MY TIME!! (which is what CIV3 is).

I mean really, it's like they went out of their way to do EVERY THING WRONG!!!
And what happened to the promise of religion, race and culture in the game? What happened to all the great things that CTP discovered? What happened to all the great ideas of gameplay found in SMAC? I thought (naively and romantically as well perhaps) that CIV3 would be the culmination of what ALL these guys discovered from CIV2, SMAC and CTP. It turns out it's just a more modern, much more boring version of CIV2 with ALL the WRONG changes made to the game.
the only good thing about CIV3 is the bartering within negotiations feature... AND That's IT!!!

I do understand that there is animosity within the Firaxis, Infogrames, Microprose extended family but it doesn't change the fact that A GOOD IDEA IS A GOOD IDEA regardless of who came up with it. The best model for governement is the "levelled and categorised" govs in SMAC (also CTP came up with some interesting govs)
I feel that we (the gamers) have been punished with a terrible game because of the stubborness, laziness and narrowmindedness of Sid Meyer et al.

I am not only sad about CIV3 but obviously a little ticked off!!

I mean: eg: CIV3 still has only Democracy, Republic, Monarchy and Communism...what the hell! they don't even have fascism or corporate republic!!
I mean forget creating such a tasty and acurate system as SMAC and forget actually doing some creative work and TRYING to come up with modern governments, but COME ON!!! what about the governments that already exist in the world!!!

I find it hard to believe that any of these CIV3 creators can form coherent sentences, let alone create a game!

Needless to say, I am back to SMAC for good and CIV3 is a coaster for my orange juice!

Later,

[Jac de Molay]

Some very good points here. I'm scratching my head as to whether BR will venture back into the TBS genre since he is clearly a master of it. I still play SMAC much more frequently than Civ 3, and have been searching in vain for SMAX as well. The difference between the two? To me, it's one word: ELEGANCE.

Dave

[Alex]

I'm going to print SirVincealot's post and frame it and hang it on my wall, because he expressed precisely what I feel about this Civ3 vs. SMAC issue.

And Dave, you summarized it perfectly too: ELEGANCE.

[Junta]

In the six or so years since I first played Civ II, I can still remember that first game. The thrill of getting my butt kicked by the pathetic AI; the agony of watching my valiant little soldiers fall as I tried to take a worthless desert city. I can also remember many of my glorious triumphs and bitter failures from both Civ II and SMAC(X). But with Civ III? Hell, I can't even remember the first half of the game I'm in right now. By next week, the memory of my tanks rooling across the land will be lost to the ages. Hopefully that is what will happen with Civ III....

Junta

[SirVincealot]

I have played Civ3 and... that's basically it.

I am replaying SMAC for the fourth time and STILL finding subtleties I had missed. There is a DEPTH to Alpha Centauri that never fails to astound me.

I, for example, just realized on this fourth play through that there is not only a quote with each tech discovery, but a separate text entry that ties all the preceeding advancements, down to the fiction aboard the Unity!

I get a sense that SMAC was written by a team of WRITERS - people who love to read, write and extrapolate. I have a subscription to SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN and can attest that the science in SMAC is damn solid.

I am amazed at the degree of both ERUDITION and POETRY evident throughout this game. What a achievement! I have mentioned it on the WomenGamers forum as one of precious few arguments that computer games CAN attain the level of ART. Art in the purest sense: an aesthetic achievement that makes us see the world in a new way...

Best regards,
SirVincealot

[Blake]

Once upon a time I read a SMAC conspiracy theory (on the SMAC newsgroup, I believe). The gist was that SMAC was too damn good, players like it too much and played it too much and didn't want to buy other games. (= less revenue)

Firaxis learnt from this mistake, and decided to never make a SMAC2, (also Alien Crossfire being no longer available...).

This was before Civ3. Ofcourse I dismissed it as an amusing joke post, which no doubt it was intended was.

If Firaxis was involved in this conspiracy then they did exactly what would should be expected with Civ3, make it crappy so people wont play it for long and quickly look for new games (to buy).

A load of carp? Probably.

[Jethro83]

I can believe that conspiracy theory... sort of.

But people buy future releases to see what new and exciting features are added.

Sadly, Civ III lacks such features (with the exception of aspects like Culture, Unique Units, etc.) and is a somewhat backward turn. Why they did it... I don't know. Maybe so that we have to pay for each feature in several individual expansion packs (love to see how they'd be able to make it 3D though).

[Method]

IMHO the only problem with SMAC compared to civ3 is the AI's exaggerated sense of their own might. in civ3 the AI would only declare war if...well they would just never declare war at all.

Conversely that was the worst part of the game. i got really bored fast because NOTHING HAPPENED. although SMAC wars are kinda bad too. the ai declares war because of SE choices and then DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT. it ends up being a waste of commerce engergy i could be getting. BTW i play on thinker.

[Neptunus]

First of all I think we should all say THANKS to Securion for being the first to bring up this topic and therefore gave us all the opportunity to make a VERY INTERESTING thread.

Second, I call someone of you who can (I would have done it if I just knew how), to post a new topic in the CIV III general forum (I never even watch that forum) with just a link to THIS VERY TOPIC. I think it would be a good idea if we could be ...well... a little provocative and just see the results (if you see what I mean).

Third (as a reply to Talent), I still wish for a SMAC2... I just wish that (above and beyond any "conspiracy theories") that the team that made SMAC have the full potential for an even better game. What just frightens me is that they might not have the will to do it...