Civ III to SMAC II

[Shai-Hulud]

Civ III and SMAC are two (surprisingly) different games. They harness from the same concept but that's about it. So one can find time for both. I have to say I like SMAC better, but then again, I haven't played Civ III enough to say anything final. But I believe SMAC has a longevity that Civ III lacks.

I hope possible sequels will make use of faction specialized facilities and projects. I don't think Peacekeepers could really build Punishment Sphere or Miriam discover Self-sentient Colony. Factions differ, but maybe not enough. What especially caught my attention after reading Dragon Sun was Yang's faction. Why not give him "invisible" bases which should REALLY be found? This for example would bring depth to the game but such features would demand a whole new game.

[gwillybj]

oppressive fundamentalist extremism

Originally posted by Shai-Hulud
... I don't think ... Miriam discover Self-sentient Colony...

I see The Self-Aware (Self-Sentient) Colony as very useful to a Fundamentalist regime. Dissidents would be very quickly silenced, before ever having a chance to accumulate disciples.

[Shai-Hulud]

Miriam doesn't seem to share that vision I think fundamentalist regime would be far too undeveloped and prejudiced to use Self-Aware Colony. Police State on the other hand would be far more interested...

[gwillybj]

Police State + Self-Aware Colony = Taliban?

[Shai-Hulud]

Police State and Fundamentalism are two different political systems, both are dictatorships, but that's about all they have in common. Taleban was fundamentalism, China is Police State. Police States don't emphatize religions because they much more consciously seek a status of tolitarian authority in society. The State itself becomes the highest goal of all = totalitarianism. Such radicals as Taleban movement used Islam to get a hold of power and lost it immediately when things went badly. Police States are established goverments with considerable support. Fundamentalistic nations we've seen are just bad jokes, really.

[Cossack]

I think SMAC is a better game than CIV III, however the concepts such a resources/luxuries and possibly culture should be included in the game except with the idiotic culture flipping altered to lessen its power so it is more of a long-term empire expansion feature as opposed to bases flipping with thousands of tanks in them.

SMAC II needs more unit chassis types, there are only 8 and so it gets a bit boring plus you don't get hovertanks until quite late in the game. Many people prefer civ because they can identify with the units that are linked to getting certain techs as opposed to obtaining a +6 offensive/defensive item/material with a tech, an upgrade from plus four. Chassis types such as various cyborg or mobile infantry or various robotic would make the game more interesting.

Designing units can get tedious and the automatic unit designer is useless so this should be improved.

Also planting forests especially if you are in the jungle area and then building tree farms is just too powerful and enables you to win the game, as the ai builds farms and mines everywhere.

The jungle is too good a terrain and the stats should be lowered or have some negative factor.

The global warming with sea levels rising 100's of metres is a bit over the top and should be lowered.

Everyone has been talking about the power of retreat in Civ III and I think they had it right in SMAC already so I don't know why they changed it.

AI is better in CIV III than in SMAC plus the AI builds to many units with fairly useless abilities.

Air power is just way too strong in SMAC against the AI, the AI rarely attacks with his air power if you have a more advanced unit, and yet often he has a numerical superiority that it doesn't use. Also air units should be able to destroy ships, bomb cities etc. but not destroy land based units except artillery and large mobile units such as tanks.

Possibly Air power should change to the CIV III system with the above alterations and I was thinking that you should be able to assign an air unit a ground support or other special missions that would negate some of the enemy's special abilities or defenses or increase a stacks offensive or defensive capability, in CIV there is no such function except for bombing.

The economics/finance aspects in SMAC need to be altered as it is too easy to earn thousands of energy credits per turn and build wonders in one turn. Yet at the same time building units with high armour combined with high firepower is too expensive.

SMAC has too many wonders with excessive power such as a free facility at all bases, this should be restricted to the continent you are on or the wonder should contribute some other lesser benefit. Once you get a slight lead it is too easy to pull ahead of the AI unlike in CIV III so I think the CIV III research and Age model works better.

I hope that even without Brian Reynolds SMAC II can be produced although if it can achieve the original high standards he has already set remains to be seen.

Just some thoughts anyway.

Nazdarovye

The English Cossack

[wheathin]

SMAC 2 really needs flags on techs that can be set disallowing trading, probing, or conquering them. This would allow unique faction-specific techs, and hence faction-specific weapons, abilities, Projects, and facilities.

[Arkona]

I admit I have not played Civ3 yet, but have recently dusted off a Civ2
CD and spent a few happy hours. What I would really like is a Civ2 with
some elements of SMAC. Keep Civ2 tech tree, most units.

Changes:

1. SMAC Social Engineering (except Planet attribute).

Government types (only SE effects different from SMAC are shown):
Simple -> Despotism (-1 eff)
New government: Monarchy (+1 support => 3 units supported)
Police State (prereq: Conscription)
Fundamentalism
Republic (prereq: Republic; +1 eff, -1 support, -1 police, +1 growth)
Democracy (+2 eff, -2 support, -2 police, +2 growth)
Free Market (prereq: Corporation)
Planned (prereq: Communism)
Green (prereq: Environmentalism)
Wealth (prereq: Trade (!))
Power (prereq: Leadership)
Knowledge (prereq: University)

2. Factions (some based on SMAC ones?)

3. Submissive pacts

4. SMAC-style borders

I realize that these changes to SE can have a strong unbalancing effect on the game, esp. since factions will have these attributes also. Anyway, this is just a pipe dream, but Civ2 with its old units and techs and some SMAC rules would be very nice.

[Shai-Hulud]

I was always very contempt with the single gov system. Social Engineering worked very well on SMAC but I'm not so sure how well would it fit to Civ. Maybe you could be able to choose "a general concept" of goverment and then to adjust it. For example economy system and state promoted values(not necessarily societal values). You might be able to enforce martial law and possibly ease your dictatorship's oppression under peaceful circumstances. But not the 'cut and paste' SE we have in SMAC.