i need experts: social engieering trends

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by k.k.Fly
Santiago's +2 morale is better than my beloved Hive's +1 industry. Quality? Quantitiy? oh well... lol

I personally think that quality is better than quantity, but to be honest, one veteran unit aint gonna beat two regular units of the same type. And an elite unit will die almost as easily as a Very Green one if it's got 90%+ damage from arty.

[k.k.fly]

with new questions!

but if you manage to build the commanding nexus project, you can heal your veteran units in one turn, which is so important for me all the time, and it gives additional +2 morale booast, and can add "trained" later on.

I have killed 2 units of same kind using one unit, but of course for instance if you use an morale booasted aircraft attacking an unit with AAA or SAM, it is not gonna go very far.

my new question would be: is arty useful? please, arty experts, share your stories or strategies.

second question is: if you add a ground unit with arty ability, but if engaged in a melee combat, is there a bonus or plenty for combat rating because of added arty ability?

[Yxklyx]

I basically only ever use Democracy/Police State, Free Market/Green, and Knowledge. Planned is only good for Yang and POP booms. Fundamentalist is pretty worthless except for Miriam. I don't like Wealth and Power at all. The morale and industry penalty for the two are nasty. Of the Future's, Cybernetic is the most useful though Eudaimonic's industry bonus is nice to help build those last projects.

Wealth would be best for the Spartans if they didn't have the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm BUT they can't use it. Power would be nice for Domai I suppose.

In SMAC2, I think the SE choices need to be tweaked. First, the HSA should not be as powerful or add two new projects that cancel the negative effects of Wealth and Power.

[moi]

Originally posted by Yxklyx
I basically only ever use Democracy/Police State, Free Market/Green, and Knowledge. Planned is only good for Yang and POP booms. Fundamentalist is pretty worthless except for Miriam. I don't like Wealth and Power at all. The morale and industry penalty for the two are nasty. Of the Future's, Cybernetic is the most useful though Eudaimonic's industry bonus is nice to help build those last projects.

Wealth would be best for the Spartans if they didn't have the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm BUT they can't use it. Power would be nice for Domai I suppose.

In SMAC2, I think the SE choices need to be tweaked. First, the HSA should not be as powerful or add two new projects that cancel the negative effects of Wealth and Power.

the cloning vats eliminates the negative effects of power.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Yxklyx
I basically only ever use Democracy/Police State, Free Market/Green, and Knowledge. Planned is only good for Yang and POP booms. Fundamentalist is pretty worthless except for Miriam. I don't like Wealth and Power at all. The morale and industry penalty for the two are nasty. Of the Future's, Cybernetic is the most useful though Eudaimonic's industry bonus is nice to help build those last projects.

Wealth would be best for the Spartans if they didn't have the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm BUT they can't use it. Power would be nice for Domai I suppose.

In SMAC2, I think the SE choices need to be tweaked. First, the HSA should not be as powerful or add two new projects that cancel the negative effects of Wealth and Power.

Some good ideas but I confess that I often take the opposite approach . You suggest

Domai --- power
Spartans-- wealth

as examples when the "bad" SE choices may be used. In both instances you have negated a factions bonuses and disadvantages with those SE choices.

While I agree Domai can run power, I am just as likely to have a run in Planned/wealth to reach +4 industry. and even if the spartans could run wealth, I would only spend small periods of time in it since the ability to produce high morale units is THE best attribute of the spartans. Both suggestions tend to "normalize" factions toward more neutral attributes while I tend to favor accentuating advantages-- you know, cult or gaians go green while the Hive and drones spend a lot of time in Planned/wealth etc.


The only SE choice I have not found a consistent use for is power. By the time I am warring I usually have a couple of bases with morale enhancing facilities such that elite units are possible without it. Police state is heaven as Yang but for the rest it can be difficult, although I have used it in the early game for drone control and faster builds.

I micromanage the heck out of my empires and have found uses on a regular bases for all the rest of the choices. I thought I would outline my uses of a few that are in disfavor with the writer above

Wealth-- most useful when not building units or fighting a major war-- in fact in those circumstances it has no negatives since if you are not fighting right now, the morale of your units is no big deal. I use it frequently while building and rushing as many facilities and SPs as possible. The +1 Economy bonus often leads to suprising benefits that can compensate for any efficiency loss for leaving knowledge

Planned-- I use it early game to speed growth when I am rushing Colony pods as soon as possible. In the early stages, getting a base out two turns earlier is definitely worth the minimal efficiency losses at thie stage. I use it to boom (obvious) and I often go planned for a while when in the facility building stage when the decreased facility cost has a bigger impact than any efficiency losses from the switch. I do find that this choice is the one I switch the most as FM and Green can both be very attractive -- In essence, green has "no negatives" once your bases are at available hab limits and we all know that FM run properly can break a game open.


Fundy-- It took me a while to appreciate fundy and there are times when it is pretty useless (ie I have all the morale enhancing facilities and can generate elite units without SE help or when I have no plans to start probe actions ). But there are times when a switch to fundy can be huge when warring. Build a bunch of probe teams and go fundy to steal bases and units.

I am probably not explaining myself well but I have found uses for the vast majority of SE choices. The only setting I tend to stay in long term is "Democracy" and I have shifted out of that if a war or probe campaign looms on the horizon. FM/Planned/Green are all attractive while with power/Knowledge/wealth I go between knowledge and wealth with wealth giving way to knowledge more as the game progresses with the exception of switches to cheapen builds.

[vitamin j]

As an aside to what Flubber was saying, I'd just add that wealth can also get you +1 energy per square if you reach a golden age in your bases. You may have to jack up your psych allocation until you get it going, but you can usually adjust it back down once the energy starts rolling in. It's the only way Deirdre can get +1 energy/square (before late game), and other factions (except Cult and Hive, I think) can use it to simulate free market, without the police and planet problems.
I agree -2 morale can hurt, but also consider that your units are that much cheaper.

[knowhow2]

Re: with new questions!

Originally posted by k.k.fly
but if you manage to build the commanding nexus project, you can heal your veteran units in one turn, which is so important for me all the time, and it gives additional +2 morale booast, and can add "trained" later on.

adding trained once a unit has been build doesn't give that additional morale I think.

[k.k.fly]

New Question

So how often do you shift the pysc, lab and econ thing at the bottom of the social engineering screen?

I only do that until I've finished all the research, then change econ to 100%.

Secondly, if you shift the meter, in the manual it says some resources are going to go 'wasted' for few turns. My question is, for example you change to lab 60%, pysc 20% and econ 20%. (While still making a little positive money to pay base maintenance cost) Will the benefit you gain from changing meter overcome those 'wasted' resources?

Apparently I don't really have a clear idea what am I asking, but curious if other people have did some research on the pysc, lab and econ thing.

[Flubber]

Re: New Question

Originally posted by k.k.fly
So how often do you shift the pysc, lab and econ thing at the bottom of the social engineering screen?

I only do that until I've finished all the research, then change econ to 100%.

Secondly, if you shift the meter, in the manual it says some resources are going to go 'wasted' for few turns. My question is, for example you change to lab 60%, pysc 20% and econ 20%. (While still making a little positive money to pay base maintenance cost) Will the benefit you gain from changing meter overcome those 'wasted' resources?

Apparently I don't really have a clear idea what am I asking, but curious if other people have did some research on the pysc, lab and econ thing.

I tinker a lot with the labs/econ allocation but its usually at 50/50 unless my efficiency rating is higher.

At +4 efficiency you acheive a paradigm economy and will have 0 losses due to shifting allocations so at that time feel free to shift at will. With this type of efficiency I will swing my allocations wildly. I might go 100% labs for a few turns to get a key advance and then go 100% econ for a turn or two to allow the quick rush-build of a newly available facility (ie fusion labs or hab domes).

At negative or zero efficiency I usually find that switching from equal labs/econ allocation is a waste of time since the allocation losses negate any benefit. With other positive efficiencies less than 4 I tinker with it as I see fit and check the F2 display a lot. Whenever possible I up the research even for just a turn or two if it will get the advance a turn quicker.
I usually check the allocations every 2-3 turns to see the effect of various settings up or down.

Psych allocation is something I don't frequently use much unless I am trying to create a golden age. If drones are a problem I will usually live with having a doctor at a base or two until better facilities/police take care of the problem.

[WhiteElephants]

Re: New Question

Originally posted by k.k.fly
So how often do you shift the pysc, lab and econ thing at the bottom of the social engineering screen?

Every turn. Try 40 labs, 40 econ, 20 psych in the mid to late game.

[Yxklyx]

O.K. I've experimented with Planned some more and it does work very well at the beginning of the game. Was playing Miriam and was able to crank out lots of units very fast. As long as I didn't build anything that required maintenance (like Recreation Commons) I was able to make some money which I could later use for upgrades. Several bases were just Stockpiling Energy (as far as I can tell Stockpiling is not effected by Inefficiency). Now, I'm running Democracy/Planned (don't have Fundamentalism yet)

[MariOne]

trick giveaway:
in early game, you could get more tech points with 60%labs 30%econ than with 60%labs 40%econ, despite the higher unbalance penalty (and despite the 10% psych allocation appears totally useless in itself), and even 1 or 2 more labs per turn can make the difference in the early techs...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Right on MariOne,

Early tech advances are key. Feel free to take some losses in order to speed early tech advances regardless of the faction. If you are a momentumer you'll want speeders and impact weapons. A builder means gaining Industrial Auto etc.

Good point on early game allocations.

Og