i need experts: social engieering trends

[k.k.fly]

i am so bugged and beg for your ideas.

In the follwing "six" social engieering trends: economy, support, growth, industry, research and efficiency. Which one is "the" most important when everyone is at peace. I still need to maintain a good number of force so the statistics screen says my forces is potent or at least formidable. And I have no clean-reactor technology yet.

economy: gives money, assoicated with energy

support: comsume minerals for additional units.

growth: nutrients and rates

industry: minearals.

research: associated with energy.

I believe, but in doubt, efficiency is the most important because it directly assoicates with energy, mineral and nutrients. For example, if i have +3 on efficency, and -1 "and/or" -2 on selective trends, is it still good?

[big_canuk]

Each area of SE becomes more important at different stages of the game. One must compromise, because obviously you cannot maximize them all. I only write a few ideas following. Much more can be added. Mould your SE choices into *your* style of play.

Economy.

You are right, that this is probably the most important generally in the game. The critical level is +2, but the higher the better, especially if you have lots of treaties or pacts for commerce income.

Support:

This is very important early game, when bases are only making a few minerals(don't go demo too early). Once you get supply crawlers, and can push minerals to ecodamage limits and beyond, then support becomes secondary to the other SE choices. Late game it may again become important in fielding a very large non-clean (therefore cheap) army, by getting to +3 support.

Growth:

This is extremely important very early game, to pump out colony pods. It is often achieved by keeping colony pod producing bases at size one or two. It then becomes (using my style), secondary to minerals, until one is able to pop boom. When pop booming of course growth must be at +6, with +2 nuts, and all else becomes secondary.

Industry:

Industry is very important early. There is a tradeoff between industry and economy for the rest of the game. One can always use 2 ecs for 1 min to buy facilities, and a few more for units. Often you can switch between cash(FM) to pile up ecs, and then industry(planned) to use the cash to rush build taking advantage of the better industry (and using the opportunity to pop boom for a few turns, and maybe complete an SP or two too) (remember to cash you crawlers *before* you switch to planned).

Research:

This one is a toughy. If you can be way out in front, then that is obviously the way to go. But if it is *very* close, then I would rather be a bit behind. That way tech is cheaper. That way you can spend a smaller percentage of your economy to keep pace. That way you have more to invest in the future. But using this tactic, you must be very careful to get to the key techs (for your style)first, for any SPs that you feel you must build. It is, IMHO, probably one of the most important aspects of the game.

Other SE choices may also be important in various circumstances.

If you have the tech lead, you may wish to protect it by boosting probe rating. In special circumstances, you may wish to boost efficiency to say go 100% labs, to nab that tech, and therefore SP, thus beating your opponent by one turn (this has the side benefit of being able to switch from green back to planned to boost the return from crawler cashing). In times of war, elite units are if not a must, then at least make waging it far easier. Elite infantry are *the* late game unit.

Be creative with SE. Once ecs are flowing don't be afraid to switch for a short term to accomplish something. You will fare much better and then be able to get back on track (or at least avoid being destroyed altogether).

In a recent MP game as Morgan, I had a bad start and was playing catchup. I had neglected my military a bit too much. I was about to take the tech lead, and my tech rate was double my main opponent (Gaians). I noticed the PBs getting built. (I had just infiltrated one turn before he built the HSA in smac using *8* probes to get the job done, whew) Soon after he built the PB, and then came the "sneak" attack. I was able to use crawler/trawler shields to deflect the PB from my SCC. Then the SE stuff. I was running DEM/FM/Knowledge probably the most preferred builder setting (My few noodles were in an all specialist base). He bought an outlying base so the first switch was to fundy, for probe and moral. Then I switched to power for again morale, and to avoid the negative of knowledge's probe rating. This whacked my research but it was still a bit better than his, and I had the lead by that turn. Then I switched to green!, for planet rating against his worms, and for efficiency, and to get a few more workers to replace crawlers. I build mostly units, many of them shells. I got the CV, and replaced my crawlers with workers.
Many of my specialists were empaths for ecs, and psych (more workers). One I got cybernetic, I went 100% economy for a while! Low and behold, he *had* to follow suit, and boost his economy too, lest I surpass him militarily. Once I got the Nano Factory for cheap upgrades, I quickly surpassed him militarily, and used shells, cheaply upgraded to win.

I thought I was going to loose. I had 1/2 as many bases as he had. I was forced into my SE choices. But they proved fruitful. A fundy/green/power/cybernetic Morgan. Who would have thought of that?

Be creative and experimentitive with your SE choices. They are one of the richest parts of this game. A great part of what makes it great. A great reason why the Artificial Idiot can't compete. A reason why MP is so rewarding and enjoyable.

Have fun!

bc

[vitamin j]

big_canuck: Woah! Cool story. And thanks for the good advice. I really learn something, or consider something differently, just about every time you post. One of these days I'll get the chance to use your vast knowledge against you!

[knowhow2]

Population often proves to be a game-ender. Pop-boom is the single most effective power-chart disruptor.

Industry, Research, Support goes hand in hand when it comes to improving infrastructure and such.

Industry, Support, morale makes up for the hard-ass military tactics.

economy is a subject of its own.


.......

[k.k.fly]

I am sorry for not making my question clear.

I assume the game is at middle stage? where weapon 12, armor 4, hovertanks, aircrafts have been invented. All fraction are powerful with 10 cities at least although I slightly have more military forces, yet barely influenced all of them to go peace.

Actually my question is (efficiency) vs (economy, growth, support, industry, research).

if you go into any base building screen, efficiency is assoicated with nutrients, energy and mineals as a whole.

efficiency=energy,nutrients,minerals

while
economy=energy
growth=nutrients
support=minerals
industry=minerals
research=energy

so is effiency more important.

[Flubber]

Like everything else in this game the answer is that it depends

LOW Efficiency has 3 major effects

1. Econ and labs losses if you attempt to diverge from the 50-50 allocation

2. Energy inefficiency losses for distant bases

3. Additional bureacracy drones as you pass certain threshold number of bases

I'm not quite sure why you equate efficiency with nuts and minerals . . .


there is little point in getting huge amounts of energy coming in only to lose it to inefficiency. So you want to maintain a reasonably high efficiency rating. However with only 10 bases, it will not be as important as when you have a larger, more widespread empire.

you can find yourself in situations where efficiency can almost be ignored-- Specialists-- Sometimes i have a number of bases that crawl sufficient resources and then drone control, labs and economy are all boosted by the use of specialists.

Later game, when you want to go 100% Labs . . . now thats a time when I stress efficiency


They did a poll once on which was the most important. I don't recall what won but perhaps it was efficiency. Personally i see growth as the most important at a number of stages of the game. But given the ability to pop boom, its no big deal if the growth rating is in the crapper for a while.


If you think efficiency is paramount, consider that the Hive will spend almost all their days in PS and will almost never have a positive efficiency rating yet are quite playable as a faction since the benfits of plusses in other areas balance some efficiency losses

[MariOne]

Originally posted by Flubber
Like everything else in this game the answer is that it depends

!!!

looks like finally I've found my twin soul in this game!!!!

Spread the word!

Id' give five starts to this thread if the rating were still active...

[Flubber]

How about 5 smilies

twin soul eh??

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I too will preface any answer with the infamous it depends.

Assuming you are talking mid to late game (advent of fusion) and assuming you are not following a heavily specialized work force then efficiency starts to play a huge roll. Do everything possible to aquire the cloning vats SP and you've offset the only negative to a green SE choice.

Paradigm eff becomes very important at this phase of the game and can many times outdo high econ rates with the minimized efficeicny losses. The big plus is my estimation is the ability to pace your research and or rush buying by slamming econ or labs to 100%. Many times I'll simply run 100% research,make a polluter base stocked with empath rovers and choppers and keep solvent by harvesting worms.

In any event, I would highly recommend making a switch to the various combos and seeing what the effect is on your research and/or econ is. If you don't like what you see switch back before the end of your turn at no cost to you.

Enjoy

Og

[k.k.fly]

NEW QUESTION

Let's say a base is producing 10 minerals a turn. that 10 minerals go directly into production. On social engieering, there is +1 Industry.

how many minerals are actually produced in "sum" per turn for that city?

[Yxklyx]

Industry just changes the cost of building something - not the number of minerals generated by a base.

[Flubber]

Thats correct which is why the Drones can be so powerful in Planned wealth-- The plus 4 industry makes a 100 shield build go to 60-- much easier to build and much cheaper to rush

[k.k.fly]

so basically it is a discount on cost of producing goodies.

In that case, on military basis, Santiago's +2 morale is better than my beloved Hive's +1 industry. Quality? Quantitiy? oh well... lol

[Sikander]

I too like to run a paradigm efficiency after fusion, usually demo / green / knowledge once I have the Cloning Vats. I use a ton of specialists, and they are almost entirely engineers. I run at 100% labs, and the engineers provide all of the money I need, enough to build a trained shell at every base every turn and upgrade it. This is a very powerful combination (once you get there), and it provides tons of both labs and cash, and is pretty stable in the vast majority of situations, though if you did not get the HSA you will be vulnerable to probes. Building a lot of probe garrisons can reduce your vulnerability in this instance.

[MattyBoy]

big_canuk:
Thanks for a great post.
Makes me want to go straight home and play my first SMAC game in a while.