Renegade Sensors

[Googlie]

Was doing some scenario testing and found some interesting things about sensors I didn't know:

They confer a 25% defense bonus against air attacks;

They confer a 25% defensive bonus against psi attacks (I think I actually did know that, but read on);

If you have built your base on one (as Vel recommends) or if there is one in range, and you take the attack to the enemy from within your base (rather than defending) the enemy unit gets the +25% defensive bonus. This is also true if you are attacking a mindworm from within your base - it gets the +25% bonus to its psi rating.

One learns something new almost every day with this game.

Googlie

[Scipio Centaurus]

When running sea formers on auto pilot I have noticed that every once in a blue moon they will build a sensor array in the middle of the ocean. I have no idea if these 'sonar bouy' are effective. In all the time I've been playing, I've only seen 2 or 3 of them. BTW, there is no option for a sea former to build a sensor array in the manual terraform menu.

- Scipio

[Sprayber]

I've had formers buld senors when I wanted solar collectors a lot of times.

But I never noticed a sensor giving an advantage to an enemy before.. IIRC you can change the alpha text to include sea sensors. Don't know is they work though.

And your right Googlie. I have been playing for two years and I still come across new things both from playing the game and reading these forums..

[Googlie]

Following your post I opened my test scenario again, and placed a sensor array in the ocean and built a base over it.

No effect on defense at all, either air, sea or against amphibious units. Interestingly even a land-based sensor confers no defensive bonuses on units in a sea base.

But I did learn something again that I don't think I knew. A perimeter defense in a sea base is virtually useless. It confers no defensive bonus against attack by a ship (which is the most common way of capturing a sea base) nor agaisnt aircraft or choppers. It's only use is against amphibious-equipped troops disembarking from a transport, and when was the last time you used those to take a sea base?

A naval yard, of course, confers the 100% defense bonus to your seabase against ship attacks, as does an aerospace center against attack from the air, but in both cases you lose the 25% intrinsic base defense (in other words, the facility ups the 25% to 100%, as does a perimeter defense for land bases).

And on a related topic, if you are a big user of bunkers (and I admit I'm not) - don't place any on squares adjacent to a base - if you strike out from within the base agaisnt a unit in one of these squares, they get the +50% defense bonus. (And if you also have a sensor within range .......... see above)

G.

[RedFred]

Wow. Good stuff to know. So the sensor just has to be in range of the unit you are counterattacking for it to get the defensive bonus? Or does the positioning matter, like if the unit is closer to the sensor than the base is?

The perim defense on sea bases is good to know. I typically build them but never thought to test to see if they work.

[Googlie]

Any unit of whatever faction will get the defensive bonus if within range of a sensor. It's the act of defending that gets rewarded, regardless of the location of the sensor (eg. nearer you, in your base, etc)

Also just did some work on bunker/sensor combos. Good if you wait to be attacked, but as soon as you fire out of your bunker the enemy unit get's the sensor's bonus. Bunker/forest combos are better (+50% +50% versus the +50% +25% of the other set) and have no penalties for attacking from the location. But not so good against air attack (mind you the bunker offers no protection against air attack other than preventing stack destruction) whereas you keep the sensor's +25% against air attacks.

[T-hawk]

I had thought the criterion was you get the bonus if the sensor is in your Territory (or a pactmate?), same as for who gets to use its sight range. Did your tests cover this?

[Zakharov VII]

Originally posted by Googlie
But I did learn something again that I don't think I knew. A perimeter defense in a sea base is virtually useless. It confers no defensive bonus against attack by a ship (which is the most common way of capturing a sea base) nor agaisnt aircraft or choppers. It's only use is against amphibious-equipped troops disembarking from a transport, and when was the last time you used those to take a sea base?

Tachyon Fields, though, are important, right? I seem to remember the datalinks saying that Perimiter Defenses give "+100% to defense" and Tachyons giving "+100% to defense from all attacks" or something. I didn't think much of it till I discovered (to my great joy) that my airforce could attack the Perimiter-Enhanced Spartan Bases with no penalty. So, I think that implies that Tachyons do prevent against air and naval strikes, though I haven't tested this (not many of my games get to Probability Mechanics, because it's off my early beelines so I don't get it till later, and most games I quit before then because of my obvious advantage).

Z

[Fitz]

That's very very very stange Goog. The criteria is indeed suppossed to be that the sensor must be within your territory for your unit to get the bonus.

"scenario testing"

Have you tested this during a regular game? Was this from within the scenario editor, or were you testing a completed scenario?

I get the strong feeling that this is a scenario editor/scenario game bug. Not a bug for regular games. AFAIK, when I build a base on a sensor, the enemy never gets a bonus to defense, and I know for a fact that I don't get the bonus when I'm in their territory (from much experience trying to gas aliens )

[Googlie]

sensored

[Googlie]

Zak VII:

Indeed you are right. A Tachyon Field gives another 100% defense value where there is an aerospace (versus air attacks), naval yard (versus sea attacks) and perim defense (against land attacks)

Fitz:

Good point. I tested by creating the situation, choosing a side, toggling the SE off, and playing the turn (at least, initiating the combat) to see what was being reported as the odds and respective strengths. Could be just an SE thing, but I doubt it - it's never been wrong before in any of its simulations. Next step, of course, is to take a saved game situation and change sides and see what happens (the AI is fond of building bunkers in adjacent base squares)

G.

[Sprayber]

Response to the bunker situation: When you move into another factions bunker you get a message saying that you have captured that particular bunker. Thus making it your own.

Maybe the sensor situation may be similar.

[Clear Skies]

Ooooh, I HATE that message! How many times have you moved a hovertank into a bunker with its first move? AAAAAAARRRRGHHHH! 'Bunker captured' - yeah, and I could've captured a city instead!

Ugh....

grr grr grr grr grr

[Gregurabi]

I capture sea bases with amphibious troops all the time (vs. the AI). The AI builds seabases right next to land, most of the time. Drop pods + Amphibious pods = drop on the beach next to the sea base and walk in.

Granted, I usually don't attack the sea base's defenders in this way (I prefer aerial assaults) -- but sometimes it's handy to wipe out an AI's sea former or stranded plane.

[Googlie]

More interesting stuff from scenario testing:

Why put armor on crawlers and formers?

Basic combat, these suffer a -50% combat penalty. Put armor on them and now for combat odds purposes, they are military units. So not only do they get the armor strength, it is effectively doubled 'cos the -50% is re-instated.

So, for energy park builders, always armor the crawlers - even synthmetal does the trick (obviously stronger armor produces harder to kill crawlers/formers)

And consider putting sensors every five tiles (so that no square is more than 2 tiles from a sensor) - this confers the +25% bonus on the armored crawlers as well, even against air attacks (the AI's favorite tactic - learned from Tau Ceti and Misotu in OKF3 - ) - and each attack it survives gives it a morale boost, further strengthening its defense capability.

G.