Help a Newbie Out... Managing your growing Empire

[CygnusZ]

Towards the middle of the game as my Empire starts to expand and grow strong, I notice that the amount of details which I am put in charge of becomes un-managable. I simply cannot keep track of all the little details constantly which tends to bog me down. Have other people run into this problem, and what can generally be done to allow the player to organize his efforts so things don't become unmanagable?

So, if anyone could bless me with some advice on how I could better stay in control of the game as the Empire becomes rather large I would be very appreciative.

Thank you,
CZ

[Kassiopeia]

There is the possibility of Governors and automated Formers, but some players (like me) absolutely hate them, whereas some love them. Governors can be quite reasonable, and if you have an updated version they won't even build Punishment Spheres in their own.
What comes to automated Terraformers, it's quite hidious since you can't make them a spesific automated task except making lots of road or removing fungus all the time. There is no "auto-Boreholes" or "auto-Forests", and even in that case the improvements would spring up in some most uncomfortable locations.
The downside of keeping your empire all to yourself is that you will have sort tons of micromanagement and end up with turn lasting over ten minutes...

But, a technique even I use is build ques! If you stack up some improvements in, you won't have to bother with the base for many turns. Try that at first, unless you already have of course.

[Flubber]

There are options to allow base governors to control bases or to set terraformers on automatic but I never use these. I am a micromanager and part of the challenge is squeezing out every bit I can from my empire. Some things you can do

1. use the build queue to set up the next several facilities/ units to be built in acertain base

2. Set military units to patrol or use the Goto function for longer trips

3. use custom base names-- Before i did this I would often (when using the F4 screen) have to go to a map to see where a certain base was located- Instead I name the bases ( an rename them if needed) to reflect either their location or function, This is helpful since the basename locates the base for me in a second and just by looking at F4 screen I can relate what neighboring bases are building. "oh a neighboring base is building an interceptor, I can build something else"


generally I find that automating functions results in the computer doing things badly on your behalf. generally you have to play attention to all your bases if you want to maximize cash and resources

[Ironwood]

I agree with the others: build queues are very good. Once you have a good idea of which order you want to build things in, you can pretty much just automatically do the standard queue, and not worry about it any longer than that particular turn.

The only cities I worry about from that point forward are the ones on the border, and near especially large fungus clusters. I make sure to remember when I see a potential threat, and only intervene then.

However, when at war, I use governors. I hate having to worry about what military units I'm going to produce, where to put them, which ones to send to the front, which ones to leave behind, etc. When I actually have a hostile nearby faction, I begin shifting the entire empire to war, leaving one city to continue the wonder race (if I can afford it), setting any city that runs out it's queue (which is usually only three or four buildings worth) to conquer. I just take what they make, send them to the front, and not worry about it. The only time I intervene in wartime production is when I really need a navy or an air force, and the governers aren't forthcoming.

I prosecute this war until I get a complete and total surrender, or until I reach a point where it won't be easy to continue on for either side. (In the age of air power, absolute hegemony is a must, since it is easy for either side to continue in most circumstances.)

Hope this helps!

[RedFred]

The thing that seperates a good SMACer from a great one is attention to detail. It seems that all the best players are intense micromanagers. So, contrary to some of the others above, my advice is just get used to it all. Use of auto anything will not help your game.

After a couple of dozen games are under your belt, you will find that a lot more of your build and terraform decisions will be routine. But if you are more interested in having a fun game than trying to become a top player, there are a couple of things you could try:

If you do want to limit the amount of time you spend playing each turn, one good way is to set an upper limit on the number of bases that you will build. One of the reason One City Challenge games are so much fun is that they are so quick to play. But you don't have to go that far. Just set an upper limit of bases before you start, be it a dozen or two.

Another thing to consider is the use of forest as the preferred terraform option. Throw in an occasional rocky mine, wet rolling farm with solar, and borehole, but go primarily with forest. This will not hamper your game too much if you are not a specialist intensive style player.

If you are involved in a war you can always gift your captured cities to a friend or pactmate. This will save you the hassle of administrating a crappy, low infrastructure, poor location base and it will also make your pal who receives such a city very happy.

[CygnusZ]

Well, I don't really queue up, but you guys are right. I gave it a shot and it helped me manage the empire a bit. I too detest the concept of using automated anything,

A few questions then. Firstly, if somebody could give me reccomendations for what a good initial queuing order is.

I've been using a basic stratedgy as far as building up my resource base. I'll tend to first concentrate like hell on getting "The Weather Paradigm" and then build a borehole to support the Energy/Mineral interests of the base. Then I try to build all my bases near water and support the nutrutional/energy needs of the base with sea kelp/solar tidal harness. Is there a more efficent manner of resource buildling that I should consider?

Oh yeah, and how is research rate determined? Does the first lab take X amount of energy and each cumilitaive technology take X+1? It doesn't seem like the different technologies require different amounts of lab output, but rather each technology needs a cumulatively greater amount.

Thanks for answering these questions.

[Flubber]

Although I suggested build queues I do not know about any particular order since I rarely use them.

As for terraforming , there are alot of different approaches. Some people focus on energy from the start while others are more concerned with minerals or nuts. For me, how I terraform is largely dependent on whether or not crawlers are available since once they are, you are often terraforming to maximize one resource rather than trying to get a balance. Early I focus on nuts on the theory that faster growth allows more bases sooner.

Research cost

The cost of a given tech is determined at the time you START researching that tech. The cost is mostly determined by the number of techs you already have but is also influenced by the tech levels of others. I have never been able to determine the actual cost formula but have come to accept that if I trade for a bunch of techs then my current research will be unaffected but my NEXT tech will be a heck of a lot more costly.

The specific tech you are researching ( and its tech level are IRRELEVANT) to the tech cost. Centauri ecology will cost a heck of a lot more as your sixth tech than as your first. If at a given point you are given the choice of a Level 6 tech and a Level 1 tech, they will both cost exactly the same to research at that time. I cannot ever recall seeing any significant drop in tech cost since it seems ALMOST always that a tech is significantly more expenseive than the tech researched before it.

[Blake]

To be honest I usually quit before getting into the later stages of the game. Once the human player gets to fusion and orbital spaceflight it is very hard to loose against the AI. (unless you are well behind).
I have however played several games to completion, including one for every victory (including Economic and Progie 'ET Phone home').

One thing which can help is to stop bothering with crawlers once you get a few Orbitals, with a raft of Sky Hydroponic Labs up you'll have enough population to work everything, with population to spare for Specialists. Crawlers would still enhance your resource output slighty, but it's just not worth the MM.
You can even start cashing in all your crawlers for SP's, that way the AI cant kill them.

[CygnusZ]

Supply Crawlers? I thought they were kind of worthless since you could get much more bang for the buck just using the resources within your production radius. Did I miss something? I saw in another thread that someone said supply crawler's gave people a huge edge...

[Zakharov VII]

Originally posted by CygnusZ
Supply Crawlers? I thought they were kind of worthless since you could get much more bang for the buck just using the resources within your production radius. Did I miss something? I saw in another thread that someone said supply crawler's gave people a huge edge...

They do give humans a huge edge !

Imagine - size 3 base, 3 crawlers. If working forests in the production radius (assume pre-tree farm), you've got 6 nutrients (3 forests, 3 from recycling tanks base) and 8 minerals (don't worry about energy right now). This base isn't growing. Now, if you have mineral restrictions raised, you can crawl 1 farm/condensor (4 nutrients), and 2 rocky mines (8 more minerals). Now you've got 10 nutrients (growing FAST - 4 surplus nutrients!), and 16 minerals - about the max you can get before serious eco-damage in the early game. Now, with crawlers, you can build everything twice as fast (16 minerals instead of 8), and you're growing really fast (+4 is A LOT for growth, and if you're pop-booming you can get to size 6 just working forests in the radius for a total of 13 nutrients and 22 minerals. That's more minerals than early-game eco-damage can handle, so move one of the crawlers to a condenser, and you can get 3 more people, etc, etc...)

So, basically, with crawlers you can get your bases up to maximum production really quickly, and continuously grow it even when the workers themselves are not producing enough nutrients. This should see you grabbing the rest of the SP's, getting lots more labs/EC's (easier to build facilities!), and having sky-high population (easily win governership!).

One advanced application of crawlers is an all-specialist base. These are especially useful when running Free Market during war time. Take a size 5+ base, crawl enough nutrients and minerals to sustain itself (3-4 crawlers on nutrients, 2-3 on minerals). Now, just make everyone in the base Librarians/Technitions/Engineers. No drones! Why? Because only workers can be drones, and you have no workers!

Now, re-home all your military units to this base, and use them wherever you want. Under Free Market, you'd normally get 2 drones per unit out of the base, but you can't get any with an all-specialist base!

So, crawlers are very useful

[Flubber]

Supply crawlers are HUGE.

In the base radius, it is often good to use a worker to get all three types of production BUT many players will terraform to maximize a single type of resource and then crawl it bask to the base. The worker can become a specialist bringing in additional economy or labs. Many players advocate crawlering nutrients early to grow a city fast and get more pods out there.

The reality is that in the early game, a crawler bringing in an extra few nutrients, minerals or energy can be the most valuable thing to build. Read some of the threads on SSC ( Super Science City) and you can see how powerful crawlers can be when the resources they bring in ( mainly energy) is harnessed through the multiplicative effects of a well developed base.

Also you mention the base radius. . . The reality is that the pop of a base is not large enough to utilize all the base squares for a long long time. Sick crawlers on mines (investment 60 minerals and some former time) and enjoy the benefits of 8 additional minerals per turn.

All I can say is use crawlers-- you will be glad you did.

[bondetamp]

The good things about suply crawlers are that they can be used to harvest a square anywhere on the map, and that a base can have as many as you want. If you've got a base with Merchant Exchange, and you're running freemarket, this gives you two extra energy per square. This is also true for any crawlers based in that base, so with a bunch of crawlers, say 50 or more, you can get an insane amount of energy every turn.

The thing to remember, though, is that a crawler can only harvest one kind of resource at the time, so it makes sense to maximize one resource on each tile that you plan to crawl. A mine and road on a rocky square gives you 4 minerals and nothing else. A bad deal for a worker, but a splendid deal for a crawler. A farm+soil enricher+condenser on a rainy square in the jungle with a nutrient special ()on it will net you 13 (!) nuts each turn. a crawler on one of those can feed a base working nothing but forests until Hab Domes. An average solar collector in an energy park (rows of solar colectors and echellonion mirrors next to each others on ground raised to max) can give 10 energy (plus 2 if Merchant Exchange and +2 Economy ) and crawlers on these, all homed in to one base with all science and economy facilities, can give you tech lead in no time.

Crawlers are obscenely good, and one of the main reasons why the AI can't compete against a dedicated player.

[bondetamp]

Damn you all and your fast typing!

[Blake]

Another thought on the direct benefit of crawlers:
Imagine a Rolling/Rainy + farm tile. 3 nuts 1 mineral.
If you crawl the 3 nuts you lose 1 mineral...

But you could instead work an extra forest tile, for a net benefit of +1 nut, +1 mineral, +1 energy. (Thats the same as rec tanks, which cost 1 row more than a crawler).

If you crawl nuts from a flat+farm tile, or minerals from a rocky+mine, you lose NOTHING. (unless running FM, in which case you lose 1 energy, but a Libarian/Techie brings in 3 energy).

Best of all, a crawler can never be a 'bad' investment, because it can be cashed in for it's FULL value to hurry Prototype or SP construction.

[knowhow2]

Wow the joy of discover the crawlers for the first time--------- it was like having a wet dream. My goodness, the crawlers totally will change everything.... EVERYTHING. Suddenly research takes 3 years instead of 6-7 years, buidling a SP takes 2 years instead of 15-20 years. Oh the joy the easiness........

Nowadays the crawlers are just too easy. Almost take some of the fun away. But it's hard to NOT use them especially if you opponent use them. However I STRONGLY recommened them. You truly never know the game unless you once fully used the crawlers to its extreme. When that day comes, you'll sit there and give this advice (or any other advice from people above) to someone new.