The Space Elevator

[Avenoct]

So yeah, I agree with you then. I'm starting to like the idea. Now, how 'bout a Space Elecoaster ride? Swing a long cable around the solar system...

[Kassiopeia]

I haven't had any time to read the whole hunk of replies yet, but read "Fountains of Paradise" by Arthur C. Clarke.

BTW, Tsiokolvsky is (also?) quoted in the Theory of Everything blurb:

The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the
cradle forever.

-- Konstantin Tsiolkovsky,
The Father of Rocketry, Datalinks

[Sandman]

It's robot butlers all over again.

[Cybergod]

Wowa! I only logged on yesterday when I posted this... thing

Originally posted by Avenoct
Get what you bargained for Cybergod?

Smack, is that you? Why change your brilliant, descriptive name? Or you want godly name like mine Oh well, it seems I can no longer call the Aldeb mod "Smack's Mod"...

ANYWAYS...

It's only the equator

or something like that...

Uh-uh! What makes you presume the cable would fall right across the equator and not fold upwards, to the poles or diagonally? That could spell disaster for anyone - no one is safe !

And I think that we should rename the Human Genome Project in SMAC, to something like "The Designer Baby"

BTW, I used the smiley too much in this post...

[bondetamp]

Originally posted by Cybergod
BTW, I used the smiley too much in this post...

You did. It is kind of freaky...

[Blake]

Uh-uh! What makes you presume the cable would fall right across the equator and not fold upwards, to the poles or diagonally? That could spell disaster for anyone - no one is safe !

Because earth is spinning so it winds up the cable. My "it's only the equator" comment reffered to the fact that the zone of destruction is limited and predictable. The cable would hit three times, because it is thrice as long as the diameter of the earth, the 2nd and 3rd strikes get increasingly powerfull and would probably stray off course a bit. Everything in space is predictable though, so evacuation would still be feasible.

I did mention at least twice that the length of the space elevator has to have thrusters to mantain stability. The same would go for the astroid. But it would be cheap enough to fuel these thrusters, because it's cheap to bring things up the elevator. Additionally the elevator would probably have a mass driver of some description, and could time 'mineral packet' launches to mantain stability. Another thing, I doubt any cable (except the elevator itself) would have the required tensile strength to haul cable cars up or down, so the mechanism would probably be electomagnetic, like a monorail.

I forget who wrote it but in the "Red Mars", "Green Mars", "Blue Mars" series it deals with a space elevator. Several space elevators, actually.


With SMAX technology progression like in the orbital spaceflight blurb it's not so much knowing how to build something, but having the infrastructure in place to build it. This infrastructure us behind the scenes, so to speak. You'll also notice that the tech tree covers robotics, genetic engineering and AI extensivly, this is because human labor (and time, no doubt) would be so expensive on Chiron.
Basically, the colonists on Chiron faced a different set of challenges to Earth. Using technology to solve the problems of overpopulation is going to be somewhat more challenging than using it to solve underpopulation

[Avenoct]

And I think that we should rename the Human Genome Project in SMAC, to something like "The Designer Baby

And who had me rename 'Practical Eugenics' to 'Practical Genetics' in Aldebaran? Ahem! And yes, I got tired of my name Smack, because it was just a place-holder name before I realized I'd actually post to this board...little did I know I'd post so much.

I forget who wrote it but in the "Red Mars", "Green Mars", "Blue Mars" series it deals with a space elevator. Several space elevators, actually.

I don't know who wrote that series, but I'd like to read it...I'd like to see some games in the future that deal with the fact that problems and solutions, liberality and conservitism will be very different planet to planet. Tell the truth, most science fiction plays on only minor changes to our social structure in the context of new environments. But somehow it's easier to see that these things change from the vantage point of the 21st century.

-S-

[Sikander]

The techs in SMAC are not theoretic, they are fully fledged useful applied technologies. Also keep in mind that civilization takes a big hit when it is reduced to a colony ship with a tiny percentage of the earth's population. Thus the 103 years could have produced a good deal of tech before the beginning of the game, much of it lost in the reductionism and disaster of the colony.

As for the space elevator, it seems that you are going to have to expend a great deal of energy keeping that sucker up there. While it will only slowly fall of it's own accord, everything that you haul up is going to be paid for eventually in energy expended. Of course hauling stuff up the elevator is going to be a lot more efficient than blasting it into space at 17,000 mph or whatever it takes to get into orbit.

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by Sikander
Of course hauling stuff up the elevator is going to be a lot more efficient than blasting it into space at 17,000 mph or whatever it takes to get into orbit.

And more environmentally friendly - less fuel being burnt, to keep the Gaians happy

Blake, it all depends on how far up the cable is compared to how fast the Earth is spinning! Just imagine a giant cable stretching all across the Earth! What an artefact we would leave for alien explorers that might just pass by...

Avenoct, I did not force you to do that!

[Cybergod]

Hey, I'm a PRINCE !!!

[Kassiopeia]

Join the club Cybergod!

Now, first a little idea of mine: What if the Elevator'd be placed at the South Pole (So that it could be well isolated from areoplanes, and the thread anchored to polar ice), so that the wire would be coherent (or whatever the word is) with Earth's axis? Then, if the wire's other end would dramatically be lost, like thought of in horror in this thread, it would just dangle there since the spinning would not force it down.
Oh, and three times across the equator? That's like over 100,000 - 120,000 kilometres. Then the Elevator would be halfway to Moon. That sounds exaggeratingly long to me. I thought it would be only a percent of that length.

[Sarxis]

I would say the biggest problem with a space elevator like this is the massive amounts of heat exapnsion/contraction the 'cable' would undergo between the night and day transition.

As the cable expands, it will push the asteroid further away from earth, increasing the orbital forces. As it contracts, it will basically have to survive pulling the asteroid towards the earth.

Of course, if the thing is going to be made of buckeyballs, then who knows exactly how it will react?

[johndmuller]

Hey you guys have been ignoring my Brilliant idea of the cable-free elevator (in my earlier post). It still gets all the advantages of the cable variety in recovering launch energy, only none of the headaches with the actual cable. They each require undiscovered techs, so that isn't really a factor. Just open your mind to it?

Kassiopia, at risk of turning out to be the straight man in some joke you are hatching, I'll venture an answer to the South Pole idea. The basic idea of the SE is that the whole thing is in orbit around the earth just like a CommSat, its orbit is exactly one day so that it stays positioned over the same spot on the earth. In order to be in orbit, it must spin around the earth so that the center of the earth is the center of its orbit (or more exactly one of the foci of its eliptical orbit). The only way it can be both in orbit and stay above the same spot is if the spot is on the equator; to stay above the south pole, you'd need to supply all the energy, like a really really big chopper. As to the distance, the geosynchronistic orbit is itself pretty far out there, enough so that a sat relay on a phone connection gives a noticable timelag (and we are dealing with the speed of light) and the geosyn orbit is just where the center of mass of the SE would have to be. The counterweight would be some distance further out (the further out it is the smaller the counterweight needs to be). We don't necessarily have to go all the way out though, we could have a base somewhere closer to Earth if we wanted.

[freshman]

Just thought I'd mention that Arthur C. Clarke has some great descriptions of the Space Elevator in his 3001 book, along with some other AC technologies, like Neural Grafting, and I believe Holo-like stuff too. (I read it some time ago).

Anyway, he also had the elevator going all the way to the moon too! (Though I cant see how that would work given that the Earth rotates faster than the moon orbits - and on different planes/axis too - the rope would end up wrapping around one body!)

[Kassiopeia]

Oh and remember, I'm no engineer, not even a Spamgineer (TM)

Originally posted by johndmuller
Hey you guys have been ignoring my Brilliant idea of the cable-free elevator (in my earlier post). It still gets all the advantages of the cable variety in recovering launch energy, only none of the headaches with the actual cable. They each require undiscovered techs, so that isn't really a factor. Just open your mind to it?

Maybe, but it sounds like having someone shoot at you and try to catch the bullet. Well, not that difficult, but you mean the Pod would be launched independently and then catched somehow... I think they are doing that already.
Perhaps I just did not understand what you actually meant.

Kassiopeia, at risk of turning out to be the straight man in some joke you are hatching

I'm not that cunning, but thanks for thinking that I would be.

What comes to your "venture", I was thinking that the Elevator would be so far away that it would dangle (no pun intended) far enough from Earth so that it would not be needed to fuel it, like a huge Sikorsky. I didn't mean it as a ComSat replacement, more like a space station for zero-gravity manufacturing and tourist attraction.

Though I cant see how that would work given that the Earth rotates faster than the moon orbits - and on different planes/axis too - the rope would end up wrapping around one body!)

Slow down the Moon? It's not that big