Constant Nuke fests.

[Jeem]

I just can't seem to stop getting nuked every game. This one I've been playing all day and I got Gaia's Landing blown away by the Peacekeepers. There must be a reason for why this is always happening. Play style? As usual, I lost 4-5 SP's.

It seems to happen when you are well on top in a war, but cannot get your enemy to submit. It also seems to happen more often when you capture a few SP's from the enemy faction. Also, the first nuke tends to start a nuke war and then things get really quite bad.

There must be an algorithm hidden away somewhere for this, because it is just happening too much to be a fluke.

Anyway, If you want to see a nuke world then here's the game. I'm safe now because of 40+ ODP's, but the rest are throwing them at each other like they're going out of fashion. Suffice to say it's now a water world. I actually built the WP in this also.

Thinker level, average world and no unity pods. I also randomized the faction personalities and agendas, but the hive still seems to play like they always do. Any ideas on this?

[Wiglaf]

interesting. in about 10 of my recent games with the AI, only three PBs were fired and two of them were mine. it's very rare that the computer would nuke a considerable amount like that.

wanna trade CDs?

[Blake]

This was more a one-sided maschosit pounding
But it is a good example of my play style. And shows of what can be done with a small empire and the clean mineral strategy quite nicely, year 2325, already into Trascendent Thought, and all bases producing enough minerals to build a CP or sattelite in 1 turn, most a PB in 3 turns. The ability to build nukes like crazy is one major benefit of the clean mineral strategy over straight energy strategy.

The game is saved after striking the death blows to the enemy HQ's, the spartans have been hit by 3-4 PB's, the gaians one and the hive 2-3.

[Traumahawk]

You think that is bad? ...

[Flubber]

This might seem different but I have NEVER been nuked. I have had several occasions where the AI has attempted to build them and even some cases where they completed one but I usually just took out the bases that was building it with a suicide chopper attack. perhaps it is playstyle . . . I never commit atrocities of any type and keep my reputation toward the honourable end. . . Also my best bases are usually surrounded by a crawler field such that the nuke might not get in range ( I'm assuming without testing that a PB cannot just fly over the encircling crawlers for a dead on hit)

I have only ever used a nuke twice and that was just to see what they did


I see the difference in your games now-- 2 of them are into the 2400s and one is in 2340 or so. I rarely go that far into games against the AI since most of them are over in the 2200s ( I do not tend to play out games where it is a foregone conclusion)

[Traumahawk]

I play similar to Flubber, and have never had an AI player wipe out one of my bases w/ a pb. They usually don't live long enough to make them, or a orbital def. will catch it.

In the game I posted above, about 50 yrs earlier I made the choice to use some pb's to see what the result would be (I always build pb's "just in case."). I used about 5 or 6.

I had no idea the sea levels would rise every turn for 50 turns , and that my bases would starve out b/c unterraformed water didn't have enough nuts. All of the land that used to exist was forrested.

[Clear Skies]

I try never to commit atrocities, and I've only ever used PBs in three games (although admittedly in one Yang had really p'ed me off by refusing the Supreme Leader vote, so I used 4 quantum PBs to drive him into the ocean floor). I have seen the AI build PBs on four occasions, but have never had any used against me. I destroyed two of the PBs with probe teams, and the other two with ordinary ground troops.

So in all, 0 PBs used against me by the AI!

[Cybergod]

Oh you people think your miseries were bad, look at mine

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27352

Go and take sides between me and the Diplomat whether we should use PBs .

[Blake]

Originally posted by Traumahawk
You think that is bad? ...

Looks at game....

How uncivilised.
Atleast when I decide it's time for the other factions to move on no-one gets hurt.*
That includes planetmind.**

The use of military force to invade others is just *sniff* uncivilised.


* After exhaustive testing by both University and Morganite scientists it has been concluded that being vaporised by a planetbuster shockwave does not hurt, because the shockwave destroys the human body faster than pain signals can travel down nerves.
In light of the new findings Santiago called Morgan a *******, **** ******* idiotic ****** ********** pig, CEO Morgan happily demonstrated to each and every Spartan that being vaporised by a planetbuster does not hurt.

** Planetmind was conditioned to explosions by setting off large bombs inside Centurai Preserves (which unfortunately destroyed the preserve). After the Gaians demanded to know how Morganite bases could produce 100+ minerals and still enjoy good relations with Planetmind (and without dancing naked in the trees!), CEO Morgan cheerfully demonstrated by detonating singularity planetbusters all over Gaian territory. No subsequent mindworm attacks on Gaians have been reported.


Blake - "No spartans were hurt in the making of this post, but the Hive got nuked for no good reason whatsoever"

[Avenoct]

Blake, that's a post to be remembered...

[TeknoMerc]

Blake,

a most poetic post!

what happens to the nukes if I discover the technology: Sunblock 10000?

[Chowlett]

Originally posted by Blake


** Planetmind was conditioned to explosions by setting off large bombs inside Centurai Preserves (which unfortunately destroyed the preserve).

This presumably enacting the finding that the Ecodamage formula takes only Preserves built, and not preserves existing into account - thereby blowing up a preserve allows you to build another one and further reduce your ecodamage?

[johndmuller]

I think that the game is a little too tolerant of PBs; what is it, 5 Centauri Preserves = 1 PB permit? The PB itself probably costs a comparable amount of production, so if you had 2 bases - one producing CPs and the other producing PBs, you could take care of a pesky opponent every so often without ED. Of course, you would also have to take care of the ED due to the PBs that were coming back at you (unless you thing Yang is going dancing in the trees whenever he lights up a PB?).

Actually, I've been in SP games where a moderate amount of PBs were used without anything getting out of hand ED-wise. In fact, it has some balancing effects sometimes, like taking a bunch of SPs out of play and knocking off some of the more productive bases. In this scenario, it is better to keep your bases further apart so that the collateral damage to neighboring bases is reduced. If it is a small enough PB, some of your terraforming will still be there, so you can start a new base in the same general area. A PB hit also gives your troops a morale boost in the form of inspirational war cries like "Remember the Hive!" and "Take this for Gaia's Landing!".

From the book "1001 Ways to Game the AI", we have item #428:

"To minimize damage from AI PBs, always have an inconsequential base somewhere (perhaps in a location that would look very nice with a lake in the middle) that you keep well stocked with obsolete military units that you don't really want, but that you can't seem to bring yourself to disband. The AI is compulsively neat about large congregations of obsolete units and real estate the would look better as a lake, so it will inevitably address its PB to such a spot. Happy housecleaning, enjoy your new lakefront lots."

[Jeem]

I'm still convinced the AI targets SP bases more than ones with loads of units. Current tactics revolve around setting up a 16-20 square 'buffer zone' around my main island so if anything gets nuked it'll be one of their own cities.

I forgot to mention that my game was with tech stag on also. Another big problem is the gap between Orbital Spaceflight and the other techs like N-Space Compression which help you defend against PB attacks. This is obviously more noticable with tech stag on. Seems to be a problem for turtle/build style players, because the bloody AI will nuke you if you just sit back and smile.

[Blake]

Originally posted by johndmuller
I think that the game is a little too tolerant of PBs; what is it, 5 Centauri Preserves = 1 PB permit? The PB itself probably costs a comparable amount of production, so if you had 2 bases - one producing CPs and the other producing PBs, you could take care of a pesky opponent every so often without ED.

Or take care of all your pesky opponents without ED
But ED seriously isn't a problem for me in SMAX, once (before the ED findings) I actually had an empire where all of my bases were polluters, with each base stacked with a team of work killers. I could have dropped a hundred nukes and not noticed a difference, because planet was already doing all it could do destroy me.

Back to scraping and building CP's, I admit it is kinda cheap, but I dont use crawlers for harvesting, or the crawler upgrade bug (or pop booming). It also lets a non-ICS'er such as myself to have a small number of extremely high production bases. It would be more unfair to only let the ICS'ers have massive producing bases.

The crawler upgrade bug is much more serious when it comes ot PB's, because it can be used to mass produce them energy credits quite cheaply. If you have Nanofactory just create a cost 600 crawler and disband it to complete a PB.

Of course, you would also have to take care of the ED due to the PBs that were coming back at you (unless you thing Yang is going dancing in the trees whenever he lights up a PB?).

Yes... this is true (and I can probably do without the image of Yang dancing naked through the trees).
Assuming that you have ODP's then it is a non-issue. Otherwise you just have to weather the storm and then raise terrain like crazy. If your bases have mineral output sutible for mass producing PB's they should have no problem mass producing Super-formers (you can get 2 for the price of a Pressure dome!), then raise your empire out of the sea and laugh as the enemy drowns.


Jeem: I've never been PB'd except in reltaliation, I've even used nervegas against a PB capable Yang with no ill effects.
That you get planetbusted so often must be something to do with your playstyle. The main factors probably being:
Integrity: I'm almost always noble. Never underestimate the effect of Integrity.
Military Forces: If you've seen my save game you'll know I take being peacefull to an extreme, some of my bases dont even have garrisons. Basically there just isn't any super attractive bases to PB.
Game length: Possibly the biggest factor, the longer the game the more time the AI has to get up to mischief like PB'ing.