Having established the irrefutable evidences with the help of my colleagues I now present my thoughts on the behalf of all dictatorships not able to defend themselves from the harm done by freedom fighters and hippies of worst kind
First some facts
Police State, +2 Police, +2 Support, -2 Efficiency
Thought Control, +2 Police, +2 Morale, +2 Probe
Broodpit, +2 Police etc.
The Ascetic Virtues +1 Police etc.
The Self-Aware Colony, if use of police allowed one extra unit in each city *the coolest demo ever*
Spartans, +1 Police etc.
Yang having no negatives from Police State
Non-lethal Methods(Intellectual Integrity, E3)
Police
+3 Can use up to 3 units as police, effect doubled
+2 Can use up to 3 units as police
+1 Can use up to 2 units as police
+0 Can use up to 1 units as police
-1 Can use up to 1 units as police. No gas for the people
-2 No units as Police No gas for the people *checks the holy manual in shame*
-3 extra drone if more than one unit away
-4 extra drone for each absent unit
-5 two extra drone for each unit kicking enemy
I'm not suggesting that even one of you really needed to read all this in order to state arguments concerning the current topic, but there it is, in case someone forgets. I certainly did. If something's missing I'm not the man I used to be. Feel free to add any relevant facts as you see fit.
My argument is essentially, considering my somewhat extensive experience from running dictatorships since the days of Civ2, I am suggesting that Police control is neither realistic or practical feature in the SMAC(X). Having managed Police States in ordinary and control centered factions one can only come to a conclusion that there are no means of oppressive population control in the mid-late games using Police.
The main problem is the fact that Police becomes obsolete, as the game progresses and the ultimate control goverment "Thought Control" fails to provide adequate means of modern control which is sustainable without the extensive use of various facilities. The control given by Police State is more or less inadequate concerning the oppressive and highly control centered nature of such goverment. In fact in many situations Police State can do more harm because of it's rampant -2 Efficiency, I'm referring to a serious threat of b-drones which any above the average empire must face.
Non-lethal methods can fight against the b-drones problem which Police States face very early on in the game. The problen however exists a lot sooner than they can come up with relatively advanced technology of Intellectual Integrity. At least, from my experience. Police States will have the imminent and continuous fight against the ever-developing b-drone dilemma. It's actually the main theme of Police State domestic policies. Police States can rarely afford expensive pop. control facilities early on and their cities are inefficient and can hardly support the basic infrastructure.
This is how it's suppose to be. The problem is that Police State does not deliver, from any perspective, except for Support.
Using Police State in most of situations is suicidal if you need some peaceful development, however minor or short termed. In reality "Police State" is sustainable in control of mass populace despite of obvious setbacks.
That 3 units as police is enough to keep those 4 citizens quiet(in utopistic condition of not having b-drones). Add Non-lethal methods and you're quite fine for the next decade or two. However, the limited resources of Police States have to be poured into Police Units, all three of them, taking up the majority of that free units support associated with the Police State. With whom you are going to attack the enemy, and they make a lot of enemies? Have some Police Scouts throw rocks into the Spider silk armors of build-all-build factions with the neat facilities and tech to handle to drones thousand times better than a goverment, MADE FOR CONTROL?(!)
Various projects enchancing factions populace control through Police or other means area usually preserved for Technocrats who use those neat facilities to not only control populace but have golden ages around their ever-growing wealthy empires while the poor Police States rush to build Police Scouts in order to keep their empire from falling apart....Nerve Staple Gas turns other factions into animals when diplomacy is concerned, they eat you up alive! Never want to see your nerve-stapling faction ever again. If you have Atrocities removed within council? Get real, with all those big, wealthy nations with big populace and inherent bonuses, Empath Guild and Clinical Immortality you're up to far too much challenge.
And you thought Nietzsche's superman philosophies turned into reality with sufficient technology you'll never get first would give you some tools to fight those Drones? You better go and think again! First of all, they take you're support away. So you won't be able to support even hand weapon armed kids without costs. Then they give you simple +2 Police, +2 Morale and +2 Probe. Certainly those probes can hardly compete with Democratic probes who happen to have those same bonuses with the help of high tech and facilities. That morale is a laughing stock of Chiron, "Get Bioenchancement centers you obsolete stalinist", say the wealthy rulers of Chiron who pull every string in planetary council and kick some serious butt with their new Plasma Shards while you cook up Chaos Guns. +1 police goes to waste and that one really can matter, or then again, maybe not. Having huge bases in the late game, and serious b-drones(up to 2-4 extra drones per base)...you will still be fighthing those unwilling minds as others rush for Trancend.
Any opinions from those who actually were stubborn enough to read though all that?
First some facts
Police State, +2 Police, +2 Support, -2 Efficiency
Thought Control, +2 Police, +2 Morale, +2 Probe
Broodpit, +2 Police etc.
The Ascetic Virtues +1 Police etc.
The Self-Aware Colony, if use of police allowed one extra unit in each city *the coolest demo ever*
Spartans, +1 Police etc.
Yang having no negatives from Police State
Non-lethal Methods(Intellectual Integrity, E3)
Police
+3 Can use up to 3 units as police, effect doubled
+2 Can use up to 3 units as police
+1 Can use up to 2 units as police
+0 Can use up to 1 units as police
-1 Can use up to 1 units as police. No gas for the people
-2 No units as Police No gas for the people *checks the holy manual in shame*
-3 extra drone if more than one unit away
-4 extra drone for each absent unit
-5 two extra drone for each unit kicking enemy
I'm not suggesting that even one of you really needed to read all this in order to state arguments concerning the current topic, but there it is, in case someone forgets. I certainly did. If something's missing I'm not the man I used to be. Feel free to add any relevant facts as you see fit.
My argument is essentially, considering my somewhat extensive experience from running dictatorships since the days of Civ2, I am suggesting that Police control is neither realistic or practical feature in the SMAC(X). Having managed Police States in ordinary and control centered factions one can only come to a conclusion that there are no means of oppressive population control in the mid-late games using Police.
The main problem is the fact that Police becomes obsolete, as the game progresses and the ultimate control goverment "Thought Control" fails to provide adequate means of modern control which is sustainable without the extensive use of various facilities. The control given by Police State is more or less inadequate concerning the oppressive and highly control centered nature of such goverment. In fact in many situations Police State can do more harm because of it's rampant -2 Efficiency, I'm referring to a serious threat of b-drones which any above the average empire must face.
Non-lethal methods can fight against the b-drones problem which Police States face very early on in the game. The problen however exists a lot sooner than they can come up with relatively advanced technology of Intellectual Integrity. At least, from my experience. Police States will have the imminent and continuous fight against the ever-developing b-drone dilemma. It's actually the main theme of Police State domestic policies. Police States can rarely afford expensive pop. control facilities early on and their cities are inefficient and can hardly support the basic infrastructure.
This is how it's suppose to be. The problem is that Police State does not deliver, from any perspective, except for Support.
Using Police State in most of situations is suicidal if you need some peaceful development, however minor or short termed. In reality "Police State" is sustainable in control of mass populace despite of obvious setbacks.
That 3 units as police is enough to keep those 4 citizens quiet(in utopistic condition of not having b-drones). Add Non-lethal methods and you're quite fine for the next decade or two. However, the limited resources of Police States have to be poured into Police Units, all three of them, taking up the majority of that free units support associated with the Police State. With whom you are going to attack the enemy, and they make a lot of enemies? Have some Police Scouts throw rocks into the Spider silk armors of build-all-build factions with the neat facilities and tech to handle to drones thousand times better than a goverment, MADE FOR CONTROL?(!)
Various projects enchancing factions populace control through Police or other means area usually preserved for Technocrats who use those neat facilities to not only control populace but have golden ages around their ever-growing wealthy empires while the poor Police States rush to build Police Scouts in order to keep their empire from falling apart....Nerve Staple Gas turns other factions into animals when diplomacy is concerned, they eat you up alive! Never want to see your nerve-stapling faction ever again. If you have Atrocities removed within council? Get real, with all those big, wealthy nations with big populace and inherent bonuses, Empath Guild and Clinical Immortality you're up to far too much challenge.
And you thought Nietzsche's superman philosophies turned into reality with sufficient technology you'll never get first would give you some tools to fight those Drones? You better go and think again! First of all, they take you're support away. So you won't be able to support even hand weapon armed kids without costs. Then they give you simple +2 Police, +2 Morale and +2 Probe. Certainly those probes can hardly compete with Democratic probes who happen to have those same bonuses with the help of high tech and facilities. That morale is a laughing stock of Chiron, "Get Bioenchancement centers you obsolete stalinist", say the wealthy rulers of Chiron who pull every string in planetary council and kick some serious butt with their new Plasma Shards while you cook up Chaos Guns. +1 police goes to waste and that one really can matter, or then again, maybe not. Having huge bases in the late game, and serious b-drones(up to 2-4 extra drones per base)...you will still be fighthing those unwilling minds as others rush for Trancend.
Any opinions from those who actually were stubborn enough to read though all that?
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