The Free Drones and Multi-Player Game Balance

[Ned]

Basil, Looking at the faction profiles with a notepad, you can see that how the nils are entered. I haven't tried the following, but will later today: Add two more lines just below the first nil line as follows

Values, Knowledge, nil
Future Society, Cybernetic, nil

Ned

[cbn]

Originally posted by Basil


Problems with the University include that everything they get from their advantages can be taken away from them with probes, and that others can cooperate to match them in research if it's more than a two-player game. Whereas nothing can take the industry away from the Drones, and the Drones tend to benefit from technology gifts in games over 2 players.

True but the cooperation thing cannot be a factor in considering who is overpowered since then, if the Drones start to gain an advantage, they can be ganged up on militarily and it becomes more a matter of politics than factional attributes. As well the university can trade tech for other tech, cash or governor votes as well -- its too situational and depends on the particular game politics too much. Even if I agree that factions will generally trade to catch up with the university that does not change the fact that there will be many key techs that they can access first and gain the benefit from first.

Probes-- I never understood why everyone assumes that the university will be so easy to probe tech from. Yes their probe rating sucks so a probe defender will generally lose-- but do your opponents make it so easy to repeatedly probe them? An unroaded forest square eats up the movement points of a land probe so that conventional military can kill it. Don't people set sensors and ZOC block any roads with formers/crawlers? The greater danger is a sea probe but those suckers are expensive while an infantry probe defender is much cheaper (ratio of 5 to 2 I believe). Lastly infiltration-- if I am tech rich I will work my behind off to get it on everyone and then watch their builds and outstanding units.


Adam Smith-- it is possible that the Drones are overpowered but I remain unconvinced. One player, no matter how good does not prove the rule. Almost any player has factions that they play "better" than others. I accept that the Drones are strong and fear them as a force in any game I play. But the test isn't how Adam Smith performed with the Drones . . . When I hear terms like "overpowered" or "unbalanced" I think that there must be something unfair and that generally the factional attributes will mean that the Drones win a disproportionate number of games among similarly skilled players. One example is not enough-- Heck 5 would only indicate a tendency-- I'm not saying that you are wrong-- I am just saying your premise is unproven as of yet.



Anyway, I am done on this debate. I do find it interesting that there are several factions for which the overpowered claim has been made. The Drones, Yang and the University are commonly claimed but I have also seem such claims for the Spartans, Consciousness. Data Angels and Peacekeepers. Like everyone, I have my favorites and factions that I fear more than others but if I can get one of my top 5 or 6 favorites I am willing to play against any factions-- If my butt gets kicked (by the Drones or anyone else) I will say it was their greater skill or play.

Signing off as "pondering hard but not yet convinced".

[Ned]

Basil, Well, it doesn't work. I even tried adding the nils to the same line as the other nil.

The only other suggest would be to adopt a multiplayer rule that Domai could not run either Knowledge or Cybernetics. You will never see the AI Domai running either.

Ned

[Clear Skies]

I've seen AI Domai running Knowledge, but not Cybernetic.
He seems to be the AI who switches SE choices most. I've seen him go from Fundy/Planned/Wealth to Demo/FM/Green in 1 tunr - most odd!

[big_canuk]

Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic
... Demo/FM/Green ... most odd!

Indeed, LOL!

[Clear Skies]

Oops
Not Demo/FM/Green of course - can't have 2 choices on the same line!
I meant Demo/FM/Knowledge...