Favourite Faction

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Depends greatly on Ability to cash in a Alien Artifact or a Ogre.

I was probably agressive. Figure onpushing back the MY 10 years in both Morgie and Zak.

[Frankychan]

someone should 'top' this thread.....

Go all you loyal Hive citizens! Chairman Yang forever!

[Clear Skies]

Just to get some debate started (and keep this thread alive):
Yang's philosophy is abhorrent :P

[Jethro83]

All factions have their philosophical flaws. Even the ones we seem to love so much.

For example, Dierdre would put the wants of the Planetmind above humanity's very survival. She would make us a slave to that... thing! Despite this, we all admire her for her concern for the well-being of Planet.

Yang is indeed a paranoid despot fearing the free-will of the human mind. Despite this, many of us admire the non-materialistic way of life he preaches, that eliminates the non-essentials, making for a clearer outlook on life.

Zakharov would be so careless with his technology that not only would he carry out unethical research into it, but it might go out of control and destroy humanity. Despite this, we admire his desire to push humanity into a new golden age of intellectualism.

Morgan would maintain the old, outdated class system, and exploit the lower classes, as well as exploiting the natural resources of Planet. His faction seems to function like a virus. Entering an area, consuming all of its resources and spreading to a new area in vaster numbers. Despite this, some would admire the vitality and sheer energy output of his free market economy (though I obviously don't)

Miriam brings the ignorances of the past into the future with her so-called 'religion'. But she seems to provide a haven for those who for some reason don't want their genes tampered with by science.

Lal would weaken humanity with a false sense of unity. His ideology of uniting everyone, despite the disaster aboad the Unity, and despite the conflicting ideologies is simply wishful thinking at its worst. But he is admirable for his humanitarian concerns.

Even my favourite faction, the Spartan Federation has its flaws. Not only are they derived from the terrorist Spartan Coalition group, whom Santiago smuggled aboard, but they are a cruel society, killing anyone they presume to be 'weak', much like the namesake ancient Greek citystate. But the admirable part of their society is the dutiful, valiant cadre of hardened soldiers ready to accept the harshest aspects of reality.

While its all a matter of opinion as to who is the 'right' faction (that's what makes this game so interesting), it also helps to be able to see things from the other perspectives.

If you hate the Hive, try and look at them from the eyes of a loyal Hive citizen. If you think Dierdre spouts nothing but tree-crazy gibberish, try and look at it from the view of one of her loyalists. Even I, a fervent anti-capitalist try at times to see the positive aspects of living in the corporate republic of Morgan Industries.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Wow... is it really possible for Zack to get an SP in the early 20s? This would be pretty mind boggling... if you guys have some SAV files showing this I would be very interested. I mean in 25 years you will barely be able to get any terraforming done, crawlers are only half as efficient without forests to harvest from. I would like to see this in action

As far as Zack pop booming, around what year does he usually do this? If you are playing on a map with average settings you will need to get to tree farms before you can efficiently popboom in any bases but the coastal bases.

Please Ogie, Sik, send me some saves, expand my horizons

I've rarely played on average settings, preferring almost always to play on huge maps, so I don't get as quick a start by any stretch of the imagination. I'll try to put something together for you and send it out though. Ogie is the acknowledged speedmaster IMO, he shaved many turns off of my opening game with his advice. I'm a big pop boom fan, which sort of hurts when playing Morgan. I can't seem to get him really going until the end of the 1st century on a huge map. Sure I have a lot of bases (18 or more), and most of them are heavily built up and terraformed by then, but I remain nonetheless 20 years behind games where I play the University. One thing that really hurts is delaying formers. It's my free pick as the University, so I start out building them immediately. I get to crawlers so quickly that I usually have a couple of them at all my central bases before I even get the tech for them with Morgan. That ends up making quite a difference in mineral production as it becomes time to build SPs.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
All factions have their philosophical flaws

How dare you insult the GREAT, PERFECT University of Planet....

[Hendrik]

What time I research formers depends entirely on the map. If the map has a lot of fungus, or is more arid, I will research formers either after biogenetics or industrial economics. I usually don't have any problem coordinating terraforming and rapid expansion.

I played two games on standard maps, with the UoP and Morgan. At year 100 I was 3 or 4 techs ahead with the UoP, but had about half as many fully developed bases. I started this game out in a rather extreme way, by building only 2 bases and cranking out crawlers to build SPs before I expanded. However I also started with Mount planet right next to my HQ, which speeded up my energy and labs quite a bit (longevity vaccine + energy park = CASH!).

I don't like huge maps because they take a *long* time to play, and the AI is really bad at attacking across long distances, or over water. I tend to like somewhat more of a challenge.

Overall I think Zack is one of the best two factions for SP play, Yang being the other. The AI doesn't know how to probe very well (IE putting probe teams right next to your military units) and doesn't develop enough infrastructure to compete with your tech rate. In MP though Zack has no advantages other than his tech, and I don't like having to rely on getting SPs. ICSing with Morgan is entirely possible without the HGP actually... just hurry rec commons in new bases.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Hendrik,

Your experimenting coincides with my play testing as well.

What I find in comparing and contrasting Zak vs. Morgie is the following:

The opening Morgie recylce tank rush buy gambit allows Morgie much more rapid colony pod generation and much faster initial expansion than say Zak.

On standard world setups Zak aquires IA around 2115-8ish. Again like you depending on initial surroundings (i.e. presence of rolling rainies or monoliths) Zak can forgo formers. If this is the case he normally gets IA around 2112ish depending if a energy special or river is present.

At this point he normally has only 2 bases and is in the process of establishing bases 3 and 4. Say by 2120 he has bases 3 and 4.

If he went formers first he normally has roads connecting bases 1 and 2 and 2 forest squares.

Morgie in contrast has recycle tanks in bases 1&2 normally no later than 2107 ish. Pods then come out at a minimum of 4 to 5 turns later (rushed if needed)

Switch to FM is around 2115 ish. Initial energy goes strictly to rush first builds of recycle tanks on bases 3&4.

I find Morgie getting to IA around 2125 to 2130 ish. but in the meantime he has ICSed and has at least 2-4 more bases in the same time frame as Zak. Zak has formers which help his min buildup with crawlers but fewer bases.

I plan to try a couple games on standard map of planet with Zak and Morgie in the same starting point.

My approach will be similar. Record when IA is achieved both factions. Record when first SP is achieved both factions. Record when 6 bases are achieved both factions.

I also concur with your assesment strengths weaknesses of Zak. Morgie while pop boom hindered covers this weakness by ICSing and rec commons rushing. The only prob I see by going this route is, I normally expereince at least one to two bases per game devoured by rogue worms prior to having a garison unit in place. Granted you can always send an escort but I tend to play as aggressive build as possible and forgoe the extra expense of a min of support to a scout/garrison unit.

PS one other hidden adavantage to Morgie. He comes with with synth metal already prototyped. You can from the get go make synth crawlers in your workshop and then upgrade to normal crawlers to synth and ultimately synth/trance for cash in for SP's. This shaves a goodly amount of time that otherwise would be wasted.

[Hendrik]

Ogie this is exactly the sort of thing I would like to do but don't have the patience to do
Could you show us the saves when you are done? I tend to disregard drone warnings whilst playing Morgan because I can afford to rush buy rec commons when necessary, but I am curious as to how beneficial it would be to stay at the low drone warning for a while. I usually have a lot of size 1 bases producing next to nothing because of inefficiency drones (IE only pop point is a doctor), but still contributing energy and labs.

The prototyped synthemetal feature is quite handy. It allows you to upgrade any units you have lying around to synthemetal in the event of an attack. Trying to support a significant military is very hard in the early game, I try to maximize the utility I get out of independant units by upgrading them (IE unity rovers out of pods, units you start with in MP games).

[Academician]

I like the Univeristy, of course, because of their research, and free network nodes at every base, making aline artifacts easier to use.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Clear Skies
Just to get some debate started (and keep this thread alive):
Yang's philosophy is abhorrent :P

Blasphemy! Where are the police when you need to crush dissent?

The glamour of the Human Hive sparkles far above the other factions!

(Is that enough Hive propaganda for you all?)

[Alinestra Covelia]

Interesting that the Hive was cast as an Asian community by the game's heavily Western designers.

The West has traditionally developed a philosophical code whereby the individual is the frame of reference for the society.

The East has been influenced by such teachings as Confucianism and Daoism, which focus on the community as being the frame of reference for the individual. Even in Korean, Japanese, and Chinese society, the name by which a person is referred first stresses the family identifier, then the individual identifier. The Chinese method of postal addresses goes "Nation, Province, City, Street, Home" instead of the Western norm "Home, Street, City, Province, Nation". The Chinese express the date as "1949.10.01" whereas the Europeans express it as "28th June 1914", and the Americans express it (in defiance of any numerical logic) "July 4th 1776".

I can understand why the game might portray the Chinese ideals of communal duty as being dangerous and brutal.

I'm sure if the Chinese made a similar game, the Chairman's ideology would be presented in a different way.

Nonetheless, to give Brian Reynolds and his team the credit they deserve, the Chairman is given some excellent quotes, and it is clear that his ideology is not simplified to a "brutal Communist thug" doctrine. Although the overall commentary appears to be ultimately condemnatory, the faction is portrayed as a complex one instead of a simple cartoon dictatorship.

[MariOne]

nice post!

BTW, what happened on 28 June '14, that should be of importance for us Europeans????

[KrysiasKrusader]

The assissination of Archduke Frans Ferdinand at Sarajevo. This precipitated the First World War.

[Clear Skies]

Reminds me of one of the graffiti in Nick Lees' book.
"Archduke Franz Ferdinand found alive. First World War a mistake. Sorry for the inconvenience."