Directed Research - SMAX

[Morganstern]

At long last, I have (finally) been able to get SMAX to work on my computer. After a first game at a fairly easy level, I decided to step up to Thinker, but would compensate with directed research (sort of a level 4 1/2). What I got was a game with extremely aggressive AI and factions, Vendetta with just about everyone despite my best efforts at diplomacy, and great inhibition of my building plans. All this occurred even in the first 25 turns - I actually had contact in turn 2, and hostile contact not too long thereafter.

My question, being new to SMAX, is whether this is the norm for the game at the higher levels, a penalty for trying directed research, or a combination of the two factors. Any comments?

[Purple]

It may be more related to geography.

Smaller map = earlier contact = earlier conflict. A map with larger landmasses may also increase the chances of two or more factions occupying the same continent.

You might experiment a bit and start up several games and go into "cheat" mode" (ctrl-K) just to see how the initial positions are assigned on various maps.

[Misotu]

It also depends which faction you are playing. Some factions have a harder time than others making friends. By the same token, it depends on who your neighbours are.

Generally, though it shouldn't be too hard to keep the peace in the early years because you're running vanilla SE settings, so I'm not sure why you're seeing the situation you describe.

In the early game, it's sometimes necessary to give into a demand from the AI - for tech or energy, whatever - to secure peace for a while longer. I used to play on transcend level with directed research, and I didn't experience quite the level of hostility you describe even with those settings. You don't have the "aggressive AI" boxed checked in the set-up for the game do you?

[Morganstern]

Misotu, thanks for your thoughts. I didn't intentionally punch in "Aggressive AI", although given the play in my latest game, I'm beginning to wonder. I'll go back tonight and check it out.

I have given into demands, particularly from the Alien faction, only to receive the "that is not enough, give me more" rejoinders, which I reject. If that sets them off, so be it. I can't keep giving them tech to see when they'll stop demanding more.

In fact, I'm starting to see the SMAX game as being downright silly. I realize the Firaxis folks probably felt they needed to step up the difficulty level after SMAC, but this is an overreaction. In my latest game, played at Thinker, one of the Alien factions has mounted an attack with no less than 50+ units, while supposedly being in vendetta with two other factions, having only about 15 bases, 125 turns into the game!

I recognize I'm not terribly familiar with this game yet, but I have played SMAC since it came out, and CivII before that, so I'm familiar with this genre. This scenario is so ridiculous it's distracting. I don't feel like this is a challenge to meet, it's a reason to not play, because it's not really a game any more. A player likes to feel the AI factions are playing with something at least approaching the constraints placed on him, with the AI of course getting more advantage as you move up on the difficulty levels. This situation is total imbalance that makes me think, why bother, what's next? I'm curious as to whether others have had similar experiences, or whether I'm just missing something.

[WhiteElephants]

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but there are folks around here that don't find the Transcend difficulty level much of a challenge anymore. Most of us have moved on to play multiplayer games.

Don't give up one SMAC yet.

[Misotu]

Morganstern, it would be a pity if you gave up on the game, because I can assure you that the AI is not unbalanced except, perhaps, in very extreme starting conditions (H'minee's main base just 4 squares away, for example )

If the AI is very aggressive and you cannot contain them diplomatically, then as far as I'm aware there are only the following explanations:

o You are very weak on the power graph. You need to expand more dramatically, preferably in terms of bases (pop) but military would do. Then the AI will treat you with more respect.

o You have checked the "aggressive AI" box in the starting conditions

o You are running SE settings that are anathema to your neighbours

If you are not able to negotiate your way out of a situation and the AI is asking for more, then I think the first explanation - weakness on the power graph - is the most likely. Hard to be certain unless I can see the game, but my guess would be that the AI is way more powerful and will therefore bully you to death.

Try a more aggressive expansion policy, and see what happens is my advice The AI can certainly be beaten relatively easily on any level once you have got used to the game and how it works. Don't give up - this is a good game, and even better when you move on to human opponents Hope to see you in the tourny some time.

cheers
Mis

[Morganstern]

I don't want to be misunderstood - I don't claim to be a great player, but I do have significant familiarity with this genre of games in the single player context, and I've never seen anything approaching the production capabilities exhibited by the Alien factions in SMAX. I typically play SMAC at the Thinker level, and do just fine. I'll take your advice and try it again, adjusting my style to less of a builder and more of a war footing.

[Morganstern]

I don't want to be misunderstood - I don't claim to be a great player, but I do have significant familiarity with this genre of games in the single player context, and I've never seen anything approaching the production capabilities exhibited by the Alien factions in SMAX. I typically play SMAC at the Thinker level, and do just fine. I'll take your advice and try it again, adjusting my style to less of a builder and more of a war footing.

[Misotu]

Morganstern, if the Alien factions are your problem, then that can be tricky if they are close by and have land access to your bases. And that's regardless of how good a player you are, so don't be disheartened.

The Alien factions are strong, it's true. The key to defeating them is nerve gas. You can gas an Alien faction with no diplomatic penalities (so no lost commerce income or reputation damage). Nerve gas gives you a +50% attack bonus - almost unstoppable in the late-early game (ie missile, or impact worst case). But to get to HE Chem, you have to have a little time.

The Alien factions can be very unbalancing under certain circumstances. For this reason, in MP games with a random start, most players will exclude the Alien factions because if one human player starts close to either of them it can ruin the game.

But in the tourny matches the Aliens are both included in the game. They are given the enormous north and south polar continents. And they are absolutely no threat, despite their dominant position on the power graph, because they cannot get to you until they research Flex. By that time, you have HE Chem for plasma defenders and nerve gas offence, which means you can contain them. Every time you nerve gas an alien base - or any base for that matter - it halves in size. A very effective weapon indeed ...

[Earwicker]

The beauty of gassing an alien base (as opposed to a human base) is knowing it would be size one whn you take it anyhow. So there's no concern for ruining something you plan to keep, since it would be ruined anyway.

If you can hang on long enough to get probes, having the aliens (not-too) nearby can be a boon to you for their early techs. Getting 3res armor before plasma is great and can give you some breathing room when they come calling.

[Morganstern]

As an update to my earlier comment, I restarted my Thinker level SMAX game described in that comment from my first save. As advised, I adopted a more aggressive war-making mode, to get ready for the Aliens. The Velociryx builder mode was cut short and minimized, with more emphasis on placing miltary units strategically. The game proceeded much as the first one, with the factions all developing in the same areas, with the same relative strength, with one big difference: me, playing the Cyborgs. When H'minee came calling, I was much less vulnerable, and better able to hold my own. I've actually taken a few of her bases. My research has suffered, and I've lost a few SP's to Roze, but am at least alive to fight another day.

One major difference I do not understand is why this time around H'minee is not launching her 50+ units at me the way she did in the previous game. There seems to be no change in that faction's base size or dominance of the other Alien faction. While H'minee remains strong, this is a noticeable change. I did not change any game settings, or take any bases until about the same time H'minee was striking before with all those units, so I cannot discern any reason for the variance. Maybe this is just random chance?

While my game is far from over, this experience teaches me the major difference between SMAX and SMAC. Much more aggressive AI, particularly in the strong Alien factions. I guess the player is on notice that when playing SMAX, the builder mode must be curtailed to prepare for the inevitable powerful Alien assault (unless of course one is playing an Alien faction).