Sky Hydroponics Lab

[Helghallen]

I seem to be having the worst time with space-based stuff. Is there anything special I have to do get the darn things to produce food for me? Same question applies to the Mining Stations and the energy sats. My last game, I had 31 of the dang things and I still ran into starving citizens. Help....

Chris

[dfilpus]

There are limits to how many resources a base gets from any of the satellites.

A base can only get resources from space up to its base size. Since each citizen needs two nuts, each base needs food from land or sea for half of its food.

A base without an aerospace complex gets half (rounded down) of the resources from space, unless you have the Space Elevator, which removes the restriction.

You can look at the resource map for a base and count the nuts from land or sea, you should find that the nuts from space are included in the total nut count.

If you want all-specialist bases, you need crawlers as well as space based resources.

[johndmuller]

quote: Originally posted by dfilpus on 05-03-2001 10:13 AM A base without an aerospace complex gets half (rounded down) of the resources from space, unless you have the Space Elevator, which removes the restriction.

I think it is rounded up.

[Fitz]

Would I be correct to assume, providing you had 12 hydroponics labs, that a size 6 base without an aero would only get +3 Nutrients? This means base size limit first, then non-aero division.

Or would the halfing of the sat nuts (12/2=6) occur first, then the base size restriction occur, which would provide +6 nuts?

[johndmuller]

I looked at a game; a new (size 1, no AeroPlex) base it has local production of 5 nuts and gets 1 extra, presumably from the sats. I think that translates into half of the number of sats, max of 1, but it could also be half of 1 rounded up (sigh). Another base, size 4 produces 11, gets 13 - I don't think that proves anything either (double sigh). Just fopr the record, there are 4 food sats in this game. I still think that you get half the number of sats not greater than size, but I don't have a good example in this game.

Looking at the energy, it seems I am getting too much. In the size 1 base with zero energy production, I'm getting 2 free and in the size 4 base I'm getting 6 while only producing 1 - there are no energy banks in these bases and there are 5 energy sats at present.

Just when I thought I knew about this stuff too.

[Misotu]

quote: Originally posted by Fitz on 05-03-2001 01:31 PM Would I be correct to assume, providing you had 12 hydroponics labs, that a size 6 base without an aero would only get +3 Nutrients? This means base size limit first, then non-aero division. Or would the halfing of the sat nuts (12/2=6) occur first, then the base size restriction occur, which would provide +6 nuts?

Double-checked this in a recent MP game:

8 hydroponics sats, 8 orbital power sats
A size 18 base with no aerospace receives 4 extra nuts and 4 extra energy.

So it is correct that, without an aerospace complex, a base will only ever get a number of extra resources equal to half of its size, regardless of how many space improvements you build.

[Fitz]

oops
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Fitz]

What are you talking about Mis. That's the wrong way around. If you had a size four base and 6 satellites, you would be answering my question. But in your example, the satellites are less than the base size, so the base size restriction never comes into play.

My questions are specific:

Q1) If a base doesn't have a aerospace complex
AND
If the # of satellites is more than the base size, but less than twice the base size.

Which is true?:
A) The base recieves bonus resources = 1/2 base size.
B) The base recieves bonus resources = 1/2 satellites.


Q2)If a base doesn't have a aerospace complex
AND
If the # of satellites is more than twice base size.

Which is true?:
A) The base recieves bonus resources = 1/2 base size.
B) The base recieves bonus resources = base size.
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Misotu]

Yup, my earlier post was total bollocks. That'll teach me for not paying attention.

Normally I'd apologise for being an idiot (as usual) but I think in this case I'm tempted to tell you to go do your own research

Still, here's your answer:

Size 11 base
No aerospace
19 energy sats
Receives 10 energy from orbitals

So in your example, the size 6 base would get +6.

Don't bother to thank me. Politeness is a sign of weakness.

[Fitz]

Actually, I'm kind of suprised it took so long for someone to tell me that. My PC with SMAC on it is not currently available to me, and I don't have time to do anything other than play more than 2-3 hours a week anyway. My work PC works fine for posting though.

And I think your example does answer my question perfectly.

Your example:
19 sats/2 = 10 (no base limit comes into play)
19 sats reduced to 11 by base size, 11/2 = 6.

Therefore the sats are divided by two first, then the base size limit applies.

That tells me I should always build 28 pre-habdome, assuming I don't build aero in everybase. That's not a common situation for me, but now I know.

[Misotu]

Yeah, I suppose you could build 28 satellites, but I'm not sure that's necessarily the most cost-effective way (thinking aloud here). Anyway, probably 28 is overkill, since that's catering for a size 14 base with no aero. Your large bases will have probably have air complexes, otherwise you couldn't build the sats?

Actually, it's stupid that I got this confused because this is something I use a lot in SP, and sometimes even in MP

The way I approach it is this:

Pre-habdomes, my max pop is 14-18

Assuming 18 max pop, I will build:
18 energy sats
10-12 food sats
2-3 min sats if they're available

It's latish in the game, and all those energy sats give me a *serious* economy. My bases will grow to max pop with lots of specialists easily on around 12 food sats, so building more pre-hab dome is a waste of cash. With 12 hydroponics sats, bases up to size 6 will get max satellite nutrients regardless of air complexes anyway. By the time they reach size 6, even in pop boom, I can easily afford to rush an air complex in each.

I'd rather spend the cash rushing complexes, not building 16 extra hydroponics. Sats are pretty expensive things - and air complexes confer defence/morale benefits too.

I suppose it would depend on how many bases you had, though. If you're not in an air war, and you've got *tons* of bases, it could be cheaper to do as you say and build the sats. Unlike complexes, there's no support cost and the more bases you have, the more cost-effective sats are of course.

It's an interesting question. There's probably a break-point in terms of the number of bases you have, but I'm not going to attempt to work it out - probably get it wrong anyway

[johndmuller]

quote: Originally posted by Fitz on 05-04-2001 12:41 PM ... So the discrepancy could be Commerce income.

Fitz: You are SO RIGHT; thanks.

I guess I didn't think of trade in a size 1 base.

[Fitz]

I'll note the mineral cost of an Aero next time I play, and the mineral cost of a sat (or of each kind if different), without the SP that halves the building cost (or does it double the minerals?). Then we should be able to calc the break point in number of bases easily for a max size base (with & without hab complexes) for all factions, with and without the Aethetic Virtues (4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16 & 18).

I assume when you say 18 that you frequently play the PK and usually get the Aesthetic Virutes.

Obviously, there's not really much point to calculating all that in SP, since you'll probably get the Cloudbase Academy. Or for SMACX, anyhow.
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Chowlett]

quote: Originally posted by Fitz on 05-04-2001 06:16 PM I'll note the mineral cost of an Aero next time I play, and the mineral cost of a sat (or of each kind if different), without the SP that halves the building cost (or does it double the minerals?).

It doubles the minerals, which can occassionally be a right pain in the buttocks. There's your base,on the limit of E-Damage, you, without really noticing the rest of the screen, put in a sat (or worse, queue in a sat), all of a sudden, double minerals, fungus all over the place. I've had it happen, not that often admittedly, but occassionally.

[Fitz]

The energy line includes the following:

Energy produced by workers
Energy produced by Commerce/Trade
Energy produced by Satellites
Energy lost to inefficieny

So the discrepancy could be Commerce income.