Vote Here: Convict or Acquit?

[Wiglaf]

Hey all,

On the 25th I started a pretty, eh.. controversial topic: SMAC's overall appeal with time factored into the equation. So, just for some pretty nifty kicks, I figured I needed a tally of what you guys thought.

Here's the deal. You vote, writing Convict, Abstain, or Acquit (guilty looks a lot like not guilty...) for each of the charges, and that's about it. I dunno, write a comment if you get the urge, I know I did .

Of course, the counts against AC:

1. Not original enough to warrant a new purchase.
2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra development time.
3. SMAC's setting is less appealing.
4. Uninspired graphics.
5. More buggy than Civ2.
6. Poor single play.
7. Poor AI.
8. Aliens hurt the game more than they help it.

There ye go. Of course, my votes:

1. Acquit. Although SMAC isn't very very original, it is very original given some of the extra features (council, factions)
2. Convict. Although barely, I feel that SMAC's great features aren't quite as good if you factor in the time they had.
3. Convict. I believe it's interesting, but getting Doctrine: Loyalty isn't as thrilling as getting Gunpowder, IMO.
4. Abstain. This one could've gone either way for me. They aren't great, but they do help gameplay and are in 3D. I guess this one'll get the most varied results.
5. Convict. No doubt.
6. Abstain. Lack of scenarios is crippling, but it can be fun.
7. Convict. Don't get me started.
8. Convict. Buggy, too scifi-ish, and really ugly .

Voting closes if there haven't been any new votes for 5 days. No recounts, no Puff Daddy. I promise

Speak out!


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The fault lies not in our SMAC, but in our stars.
~ Vanguard, February 2, 2000.

[jones]

quote: Originally posted by SMACed on 03-29-2001 06:13 PM 5. More buggy than Civ2.

Hello evidently you weren't on the newsgroups after the release of civ2 (when Reynolds was posting patches almost daily). Well needless to say it set a great example for companies getting involved and keeping fans informed.

So, if you like Civ so much better why are you posting in the AC forums?

David

[Wiglaf]

Jones - please read my full post. And put any replies in the form of a vote. Thank you
[This message has been edited by SMACed (edited March 29, 2001).]

[Lord Maxwell]

2.

Legacy code, legacy ideas, legacy everything. I wonder if there are people around who get two good ideas in a lifetime?

[optimus2861]

quote: Originally posted by SMACed on 03-29-2001 06:13 PM 1. Not original enough to warrant a new purchase.

Acquit. Added enough new features that it was worth it. It's hard playing Civ2 without the build queues .

quote: 2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra development time.

Interesting caveat -- I guess I'll have to Abstain. I find both games fun, and have been switching back and forth lately, playing first a Civ2 game, than a SMAC, etc.

quote: 3. SMAC's setting is less appealing.

Acquit. I like sci-fi, so the idea of settling a new planet is appealing for sure. I wouldn't want to say, more or less appealing than Civ2, just a different appeal. Make any sense?

quote: 4. Uninspired graphics.

Convict. Solely on the basis of the unit graphics. The unit workshop was a good idea, but the implementation left much to be desired. I still find it impossible to tell by sight alone the A/D/HP levels of any unit, or if it has any special abilities. Contrast with Civ2, where knowing an enemy city was guarded by musketeers meant you'd need more crusaders to crack it. (Aside: glad they decided not to include a workshop in Civ3)

quote: 5. More buggy than Civ2.

Abstain. I don't play MP, and in SP I have to say, the only real "show-stopper" is the ability to switch AI citizens to doctors on the F4 base screen. Which I just don't do -- the AI's bad enough without me hurting it more .

quote: 6. Poor single play.

Acquit. Nah, it's OK. Just accept that you'll have to screw up spectacularly to lose, that's all . (Though my current Spartan game wasn't looking good when I last left it, as Yang was running roughshod over Lal and beat me to Command Nexus - that -1 Industry hurts...)

quote: 7. Poor AI.

Convict. Is there any doubt on this one?

[Earwicker]

1. Acquit. I thought so at first but changed my mind quickly once I got into it.
2. Acquit. Both games are enjoyable for different reasons, and I alternate play every couple of months.
3. Acquit. Both the concept and the world in which it is set are quite intriguing.
4. Abstain. I like the concept and the 3-d mapping, the unique base designs. But the animated graphic slow down game play, and the lack of individuality of different factions' unit designs is a negative.
5. Convict. Came late into CivII but never experienced the degree of blue-screen crashes and spotty sound I got with the first go-round with SMAC.
6. Acquit. Like SMACed, still waiting for more scenarios.
7. Convict bigtime. Both games suffer on this account.
8. Abstain. A more challenging approach would have been a later arrival of more powerful aliens, and an AI capable of recognizing the need for human factions to "band together" against them -- and the diplomacy that would have engendered.

[It'sLikeThat]

1 - acquit - sure, the engine's about the same, but there's plenty of differences in concept

2 - acquit - i like them both, in fact more than ctp or ctp2(ctp2 sucks)

3 - acquit - i like sci-fi too. and i read a lot of novels relating to colonising other worlds (kim stanley robinson) and articals on transhumanism.

4 - convict - pink, pink, pink, a little green, pink somemore. arghhh!!!

5 - abstain - i don't notice many bugs, until i started reading through this forum.

6 - convict - the chances of getting a really enjoyable SP game is 30%

7 - convict - should i explain?

8 - convict - give them a huge starting continent and they'll start plopping bases every turn after 2170. and their units are ugly. and their talents look like oil-derrick christmas tree thingy. and they're ugly.
[This message has been edited by It'sLikeThat (edited March 30, 2001).]

[Wiglaf]

Little update here:

1. Not Original Enough for New Purchase
Acquit: 4 Convict: 0 Abstain: 0

2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra time.
Acquit: 2 Convict: 1 Abstain: 1

3. SMAC's Setting is less Appealing
Acquit: 3 Convict: 1 Abstian: 1

4. Uninspired Graphics
Acquit: 0 Convict: 2 Abstain: 2

5. More buggy than Civ2
Acquit: 0 Convict: 2 Abstain: 2

6. Poor Single Play
Acquit: 2 Convict: 1 Abstain: 1

7. Poor AI
Acquit: 0 Convict: 4 Abstain: 0

8. Aliens hurt more than Help
Acquit: 0 Convict: 2 Abstain: 1

Overall, it'll "get off" on the oringinality factor if this trend continues, but the poor AI is getting really hammered. As unexpected, the solo play is holding out quite well - goes to show even the artificial idiot can't wreck great design.

Keep on voting, or SMAC'll get some pretty tough jail time and/or false freedom from the facts...

[This message has been edited by SMACed (edited March 30, 2001).]

[Sikander]

1. Not Original Enough for New Purchase

Aquit

I have found SMAC/X to be a better acquisition than CIV2. I like a lot of things about it, but particularly social engineering, unit design and supply crawlers. The diplomacy is also much improved.

2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra time.

Aquit

The real culprit here is CIV2 in comparison. It broke almost no new ground from CIV1, and it took forever to come out. Btw I still think it is a rocking upgrade, but considering that there are very few new ideas what took so long?

3. SMAC's Setting is less Appealing

Convict

I have no fear of Sci Fi, but the 'Brave New World' just didn't grab me the way the musty old one did as far as my imagination being inspired.


4. Uninspired Graphics

Convict

Some of the graphics are horrible, including those caviars in the design workshop. Still, there are a few that I really like, especially the little colored Nutrient / Energy / Mineral splashes on the base production screen.

5. More buggy than Civ2

Yep, but compared to Eidos both are marvels of software engineering. Plus, I bought MGE which had been thoroughly worked.

6. Poor Single Play

Acquit

I love to play this game.

7. Poor AI
Acquit: 0 Convict: 4 Abstain: 0

Abstain

Yep it sucks, but considering the complexity of the game I think it is every bit as good as Civ's.

8. Aliens hurt more than Help

Convict

I hate 'em!

[Jokka das Trevas]

quote: Originally posted by SMACed on 03-29-2001 06:13 PM 1. Not original enough to warrant a new purchase.

ACQUIT. You can't say a game isn't original just because it doesn't inspire a new genre. When you create a new genre is INNOVATION, not originality.

I personally can very barely compare SMACX with Civ, and yes I was a Civ addict. But the flexibility given by SMACX(SE, unit formation, build queue an much more) made me quit Civ for good.

It's the same thing that saying Unreal Tournament wasn't original because it's based in Wolfenstein 3D.

quote: 2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra development time.

ACQUIT. Read above.
Civ is still a very good game, but since I have SMAC I'll play SMAC.

quote: 3. SMAC's setting is less appealing.

ACQUIT. This is not because Civ's historycal and SMAC's sci-fi, but because SMAC actually HAS a background story other than the development of you nation. And the leader's conversation has much more personality than it was in Civ.

quote: 4. Uninspired graphics.

ABSTAIN. This is quite subjective. Since I'm more of a gamer than a observer(at least when playing), I find SMAC's graphics quite average, and serves good purpose. The icons are also cool.

But, if you're talking about the animation movies, sorry but I ACQUIT. Excluding the disappointment that is the transcendence video, all other 3D videos are very good(Should you say that the Hunter-seeker video is uninspired is a dreadful crime That was a good representation of Cyberspace, IMHO)

quote: 5. More buggy than Civ2.

CONVICT. I don't play multi, but every now and then I see a bug happening(yes, my SMACX is original :P). Last time many conquered bases of mine didn't had any talents, but I had Human Genome Project. Some didn't have perimeter defense as well, and I was Hive :P

Also the pathfinding is also buggy, it's not rare the computer chooses the path 2-3 turns longer to my "go to" orders. It's also funny when former's AI sutck then in a cycle that it produces nothing, just goes walking and walking and walking...

quote: 6. Poor single play.

ACQUIT. I only play single, but play all over the day if I can.

quote: 7. Poor AI.

ABSTAIN. The AI has it's "genius days". Sometimes it's pretty jerky, but at times it's quite flawless... But I agree that when it decides to be a jerk it's a real moron jerk ehehehe

quote: 8. Aliens hurt the game more than they help it.

ABSTAIN. They add a nice "wildcard" aspect to the game. I only think they should not be random, and be AT LEAST regulated.

For example, there is an RTS game called Outlive, and in it exists kinda critter that wanders the map and belongs to no player. They'll fight back if provoked, but sometimes they'll just get pissed and attack unprovoked anyway(they're tough but not that much, so after the early game it's not even mach demonboil worms in SMAC), adding an interesting feature to the game...

Thing is: at early game you're completely vulnerable to them since they're relatively strong to your early tech.
The solution?
They appear but don't attack randomly(unless provocked) until after 10 minutes from game start - until then you can deal ok with these creatures.

Same thing for worms: not that they're god-strong in early, but they should not appear until, say, 20-50 years after planetfall. It's really crappy to lose an scout unit or artifact to RANDOM boils that appear when walking fungus patchs, and much more frustrating to find out that a pod was infested with mindworms when you have absolutely no chance against multiple worms at one(since your unit's move often finish after getting the pod, you can't attack them first). Worst yet, it may be close to your base then you're doomed...



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Long live THE HIVE!

[Jokka das Trevas]

Oh, I see you mean the Alien factions, maybe?

I would abstain anyway, though they're are overpowered, and it sucks that the usurpers don't have they own transcendence finale. :P

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Long live THE HIVE!

[LoD]

1. Acquit. Border system, sea bases, terrain combat, custom units...
2. Acquit. Because it is innovative, it is much more flexible and therefore more challenging.
3. Acuit. The unique storyline is something that the Civ game world needed.
4. Abstain. The graphics could have been better, but nonetheless they are not horrid, given the time of release of the game and the genre.
5. Acquit. Like jones said, SMAC was from the start much less buggy than Civ. As well as CtP for that matter. I don't have any problems with bugs currently - the only minor complication is the resource leakage.
6. Abstain. No scenario trigger script, this sucks! OTOH, there is still a lot of customizability left, if one uses his brain.
7. Abstain. Of course, once you get proficient in Transcend, the AI is just a laugh, but tell me, was there a TBS, or, for that matter, a Civ game where this was untrue? If the programmists wanted the AI to be become really good, they would have to spend a lifetime trying to hone it. Just think about - there are infinitely more variable in SMAC than in, for example, Chess. Another thing - the AI has to be beatable - otherwise the game would be just boring.
8. Abstain. Don't have SMACX, didn't play against or as the Aliens.

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LoD - Owner/Webmaster of

THE CHIRONIAN GUILD SMAC Site
Chironian Guild's Discussion Forums

[Garth Vader]

1. Not original enough to warrant a new purchase.

Acquit, Borders, SE, Council, Design Workshop I have not even thought of playing Civ2 after playing SMAC.

2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra development time.

Acquit. I would have convicted Civ2 after Civ though.

3. SMAC's setting is less appealing.

Acquit, the differences in the factions and the landmarks make for a more flavorful game then vanilla races whos only real difference is their name and color.

4. Uninspired graphics.

Abstain, I have no complaints.

5. More buggy than Civ2.

Convict, although I didn't play the hell out of Civ2 like I did SMAC because I didn't need to cause it didn't have MP.

6. Poor single play.

Acquit, although once I went to MP I didn't go back to SP the SP game was as good as I have seen for this kind of game.

7. Poor AI.

Acquit, I am not going to say it's great, but it's about what you would expect.

8. Aliens hurt the game more than they help it.

Abstain, Don't have SMACX.

[Wiglaf]

Update time!

1. Not Original Enough for New Purchase
Acquit: 8 Convict: 0 Abstain: 0

It's safe to say that's in the bag

2. Civ is a better experiance than SMAC given the sequel's extra time.
Acquit: 6 Convict: 1 Abstain: 1

It was close before, but now it'll take a long time to even it up.

3. SMAC's setting is less appealing.
Acquit: 6 Convict: 2 Abstian: 1

Now that's suprising. This is the one question that keeps coming up, but I guess you've all settled on an opinion - only one abstain.

4. Uninspired Graphics
Acquit: 0 Convict: 3 Abstain: 5

Still no acquits, but I doubt there will be many. The five abstains is pretty amazing, though.

5. More buggy than Civ2
Acquit: 1 Convict: 5 Abstain: 2

As expected - frustration goes a long way.

6. Poor Single Play
Acquit: 5 Convict: 1 Abstain: 2

Probably the most suprising response, mostly because it shows that the AI is not a powerful enough culprit to wreck the original framework of the design, as shown by number seven.

7. Poor AI
Acquit: 1 Convict: 4 Abstain: 3

See ya in jail, SMAC.

8. Aliens hurt more than Help
Acquit: 0 Convict: 3 Abstain: 4

Ugly, buggy looking things!

That last batch of votes really helped SMAC. It's now pretty much off the hook (if the trend continues) on single play, setting, oringinality, and lack of proper time usage. Graphics are still up in the air, as are the aliens, the AI, and the bugs. Personally I was very suprised at the single play and the time usage part, although it's not over yet...

If ya haven't voted yet you might as well hurry up and get to it.. SMAC and/or justice really needs your help !
[This message has been edited by SMACed (edited April 06, 2001).]