Democratic, Green, Wealth + GA

[Ned]

Garth, No, I have never gotten all the SP's using blind research. In fact, in a recent game, I had my greatest challenge ever without an Alien faction. I played the Pirates on a Huge world against Aki, Diedre, Roze, LAL, Miriam and Yang. I didn't get an SP until 2252, the Nural Amplifier. I got a fair share from this point on, but not all. AKI got all the tech enhancers, including the DataLinks, the Supercollider, the Theory of Everything, etc. She consistently was ahead in technology and would normally build an SP long before I was able to research the necessary tech. Since she had the HSA, I couldn't probe to keep up. Fortunately, Aki was willing to sell me technology throughout the game. Otherwise, I would have had no chance. Near the end, though, something strange occurred. Aki researched the final tech and began to build the "VOICE of the Planet." At this time, she exclusively had the techs to build five or six of the final SP's, but choose not to do so. She even sold me these techs at relatively cheap prices. I built them instead, while she continued to build the VOICE. Net, net, this change in strategy by Aki cost her. I was able to catch up so that at the end I had far more production capacity than AKI. Even if I didn't use the upgraded crawler cheat (which I did) I believe I would have easily beaten her to transcendence. Ned

[Garth Vader]

Speaking of playing with blind research, has anybody built all the projects at a decently high level with blind research? I came close in my current game. I missed the Planetary Datalinks, I stole the tech the turn before the UoP built it

[Sikander]

quote: Originally posted by knowhow2 on 03-22-2001 07:35 AM sikander, super-tree-forrest = hybrid forrest and a question: didn't any other factions build any SP s by 2150??? In all my Sing P games never had that happened. Usually the AI starts building SPs around 2120-30. Just wondering.

I just built them first using two crawler pumped bases at first, then three and finally three sets of three. I can build them so fast with crawlers that I can often hear that the AI is starting one, wait for my next tech advance, research the proper tech and build my SP before the AI builds his, even with all of his Transcend industry advantage. It's a bit of a dance, and I have only done it with the University, but I have managed to build all of the SPs three times as the University at Transcend. You really have to want it though, as it can be a drag to leave a beeline at times. Also you have to be pretty lucky in that certain factions have trouble and can't build the SP which they are well suited to (Yang, Deirdre,) before you research the tech. Here's a couple of tricks:

1) Beeline to crawlers

2) Have your formers plant forest like crazy (probably should be #1 since you start this asap)

3) put your crawlers on the forest until you have 16 min at your base.

4) if no AI have started an SP when your first base has started to produce 16 min, use the crawlers it is building to increase the production at an adjacent base by re-homing your crawlers there. If you start building an SP it seems to encourage the AI to do the same, so you might as well wait a little bit and really get your industry rolling. Once you have 2-3 bases at full production, go ahead and start saving crawlers for an SP.

5) If Lal is building the WP, you have to build the WP and the HGP or he'll switch production and build the HGP instead. This goes for any AI who you know can build another SP if you beat them to the one they want. One advantage for you is that you get another turn while he switches production provided you move before him. Move first by being the top faction in the game parameters (factions) screen.

6) You will need roads and teams of two to three bases pouring out crawlers for each SP to build them really fast.

7) For a research rich faction using directed research AAs are a lot more valuable in the early game then the random, beeline wrecking tech they can give you. If pressed turn those suckers in to advance your project.

8) Running Planned / Wealth can really help build SPs fast, and is a good idea especially while you are building up your production by building crawlers.
[This message has been edited by Sikander (edited April 04, 2001).]

[Skanderbeg]

quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader on 03-27-2001 12:04 PM Speaking of playing with blind research, has anybody built all the projects at a decently high level with blind research? I came close in my current game. I missed the Planetary Datalinks, I stole the tech the turn before the UoP built it

For my opinion, it is IMPOSSIBLE to BUILD ALL secret projects on TRANSCENDENT level with BLIND RESEARCH without any cheating. (Prove me wrong ).
The reason is simple, You can't beeline to crawlers, and so You will loose at least one or two of the early SP's, and You will not be able to build all those SP's at the same time in the early game.

The best game I ever had in getting with SP's under this circumstances was with the Pirates, where I get all SP's except the WP and the Planetary Energy Grid. But even in this game, I had no chance to get them all. In the early game, I had the choice to build WP or HGP, but not both fast enough, and the PEG - Miriam built it a hundred turns before I got the tech for it.

Perhaps it is not totally impossible, that very rarely someone with excellent luck (popping real hordes of AA's or something else) will get all SP's under Blind Reseach.

But I think there is no game strategy which allows a player to get all SP's
under blind research on transcendent without cheating.

[Sikander]

quote: Originally posted by jones on 03-24-2001 03:22 AM Sik: Many excellent points noted, especially higher morale units = better weapon/armor more or less for free. Have any observations about running Morgan with the SE in my previous post? I think he's a contender for "best faction in war SE settings" as he can still tech/cash pretty darn good while hitting you with a big air force. David

David,

My experience with Morgan is quite limited, but I have read a lot about his potential from a number of very good players here over the last year. A lot of them don't bother with FM early on, and merely run wealth while expanding. His limitations are his hab limits (not too much trouble really), and his difficulty pop booming (more of a problem as he needs GA to do it). As far as warfare goes he seems a lot stronger than he is often given credit for. He is well poised to make an early run at supply crawlers, which means that he can nail down several of those crucial early SPs without too much trouble, and that industrial power can be a springboard for either economic or military power, and usually both. He has a lot of excellent choices open to him in the SE arena which aren't there for others due to that +1 econ rating.

I'll have to try him again soon, though I'm in a game right now which could take a while.

[Sikander]

Skanderberg,

"But I think there is no game strategy which allows a player to get all SP's under blind research on transcendent without cheating."

I tend to agree, but it would be an interesting challenge. Perhaps playing on a tiny planet, large landmass, with abundant native life as Cha Dawn or Deirdre could allow a rapid enough conquest of your major competitors that you might have an outside chance, sort of like the fast transcend records. Any Blind takers?

[Earwicker]

Sure, it bugs me when I get beaten to my desired SP's by the lowlife AI, but I enjoy the way it changes the game and creates new challenges. In my current game, Miriam beat me (Angels) to the WP (of which I am a great fan). Terraforming just seems sooooooo sloooooooow without it. I just thought of it as her "borrowing" the WP until I worked my way down to New Jerusalem. When I got deep into her territory there were mines EVERYWHERE but not a single borehole. Go figure.

I remembered this thread and boomed my way to bigtime energy and production -- ironic that the hackers are the major research production gang on Planet. Further stealing is unlikely for me, since opponents are Drones, Pirates, Miriam, pet Dierdre, one-remaining-base Past Sister Aki, who is being crushed by Yang. Where are my Sugar Daddies Morgan and Zak?!

It's the minor setbacks that give the game such interesting flavor.