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Politics: What will rule Chiron?

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  • Politics: What will rule Chiron?

    Because the threads I have posted, and a couple I haven't, have brought up a big discussion between democracy and communism, I have made this new thread entirely devoted to just that. Open political debates, regarding any forms of government, particulary these, are allowed. However, please do not bring discussions on Republicans, Democrats, and Presidential Campaigns into this. And please, since I know a lot of People have, lets say, to put it lightly, negative opinions about Yang, Miriam, and Lal, well, please don't bring that into here later. I believe that would be quite a few threads on its own.

    Lets say three factions dominate Chiron:
    --The Peacekeepers plan to turn the planet into a free society
    --The Hive prefers to control the Planet with a strict police state
    --The Believers plan to uphold a society that praises god, believing Chiron is the promised land, and the fanatic forces with support a fundalmentalist society

    Do not look at the factions' advantages, solely on the idealogies. Who will win? Will the Fanatic Fundalmentalists conquer the planet? Perhaps the strict athiest society of the Hive will allow no revolt among citizens, and will modernize society away from religion. Or will the people rebel against suppression, and take towards the promises of freedom and decision in democracy? Please vote, and support your answer with a post.
    15
    The Free Society of Democracy (Assume there really is freedom)
    40.00%
    6
    The Suppression of a Police State
    46.67%
    7
    The Fanatism of a Fundalmentalist Society
    13.33%
    2

  • #2
    I believe (and I already know who is going to disagree) that democracy will hold out. I am not going to say why, because I already know who is going to criticize what I say. I do appreciate the Criticism, as it helps me learn more. But I feel that this time I will criticize and agree with what other people have to say first.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Hive and the Believers will remain.
      The Hive because its a massive police state.
      The Believers because even after the last base is taken they will still continue to fight on.

      The Peacekeepers would be too bogged down by internal politics and wouildn't be able to defend against either the Believers or the Hive.

      I'll vote for the Hive.
      Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
      Long live teh paranoia smiley!

      Comment


      • #4
        Where are all the other options?

        Where is Communism/Planned?

        Where is Fascism/Power?

        Where is Green?

        This poll = teh suxx0rs

        -Jam
        1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
        That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
        Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
        Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Their is a major distinction between Comunism (in its pure ideological form) and a Police State.

          A police state is simply one in which the goverment is keeping all of its citizens under constant servalance for any sign of oposition to the current regim and takes "action" when ever it finds said decent. Needless to say the people have no non-violent way to change their leadership.

          Comunism in its pure ideological form is a combined economic and polictical system. The economics are ultra socialist to the point that everything an individual produces is taxed by the state and then all of his needs are provided by the state. The political half was supposed to be a bottom up system inwhich the "goverment" as an entity would eventualy cease to exist as something differnt then "the people". The process used in every Comunist country though was to incressingly centralize power under the guise that this central power would expand to encoumpase everyone in the desision making process. Ofcorse it didn't work out that way and real world comunism became sunonimous with Dictatorship and Olagarcy.

          When the experimental social transformation know as comunism was tried in the real world It didn't help that neither Russia or China had ever had any kind of Democratic tradition, they have always been places ware a few elites rule over masses of pesants and neither comunism nor its fall or decline has changed that in either country. Thus the formation of Dictatorships was by far the likliest outcome. By contrast extream Socialism has worked quite well in Wester Europe which had already developed a Democratic Ttrandition. Even the United States which is by far the least socialist western country is undeniably far more socialst then it was a hundred years ago.

          Despite all its trials and tribulation (like being responsible for near 100 Million deaths in the last century) Comunism has been the most profound and significant Ideology of the last Century, the lifestyle of ever person on earth has been affected by it. It would not be inapropriate to call the 19th Century the Capitalist Century, and the 20th the Communist Century. It remains to be seen what the 21st will be, Its my personal hope that it will be one of Democratic Socialism.
          Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators, the creator seeks - those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. - Thus spoke Zarathustra, Fredrick Nietzsche

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jamski
            Where is Communism/Planned?
            Communism is planned how exactly? Who does the planning? The state?
            Trithemius
            ["Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

            Comment


            • #7
              Impaler, are we reading the same Marx? I am confused.

              P.S. I agree about the Democratic Socialism though
              New Zealand is quite DS.
              Last edited by Trithemius; March 31, 2004, 06:07.
              Trithemius
              ["Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

              Comment


              • #8
                Communism is planned how exactly? Who does the planning? The state?
                Umm... yes :hmm: Who else?

                -Jam
                1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
                That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
                Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
                Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jamski
                  Umm... yes :hmm: Who else?
                  THERE IS NO STATE IN COMMUNISM!
                  Trithemius
                  ["Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    I agree that the Human Hvie has the fortitude to survive life on Chiron longer than the U.N. Peacekeepers.

                    As for Miriam's psycho-babble, blind faith can be a very powerful and dangerous thing.
                    Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                    Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                    *****Citizen of the Hive****
                    "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      THERE IS NO STATE IN COMMUNISM
                      I beleive you are thinking of anarchocommunism

                      -Jam
                      1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
                      That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
                      Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
                      Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A lot of you have mentioned that communism and a police state are not the same. This is true, but we are assuming that the Hive is doing planned and a police state, which ultimately means, Yang is doing communism. So please, no arguements about police states vs. communism. They are different, we all know that. But the Hive is doing both, so for all intensive purposes, communism and police state may be used interchangebly in this thread, and using them will refer to the Hive.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Planned + Police State != Communism

                          Stalin's UdSSR was a Planned Police State, and was the "model" for the Hive in some ways, and could never be considered "Communist"

                          Hitler's Germany was a Planned Police State, and was surely not communist.

                          What cloud did you fall off

                          -Jam
                          1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
                          That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
                          Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
                          Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Commy
                            Communism, and to a certain extent, tyrrany is not insane. Yang is insane, not socialism.
                            You said that.

                            -Jam
                            1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
                            That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
                            Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
                            Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On what basis does the harsh judgment of Yang come from? A police state it in of itself is not evil, and nor is democracy in it of itself on some pedestal of goodness by which all other government systems are to be judged by.
                              You can only curse me to eternal damnation for so long!

                              Comment

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