Help balancing these factions

[cbn]

Good analysis dimension.

I don't know how to fix the Drifters and am not sure that a fix is needed if the intent is to create a momentum faction. I agree that if you made them much stronger they could be unstoppable in a momentum situation but at the same time -1 Econ and -1 industry really hurt if they are stuck
"building" for any length of time. Perhaps improving one of those elements and giving them say a -1 probe (drifters wander and join other factions) or a -1 research (lack of united effort). Or if you want to leave those alone perhaps a +1 growth (large frontier families).

As they are, they are are darn fine momentum faction that I would not look forward to having next door if playing a builder. Although as it stands, either the believers or the spartans don't stack up that terribly against these guys. Considering that some of the others are so so powerful in industry and economics compared to standard factions -- I just think these guys should be stronger if the intent is that they have some chance in the building situation.

[Walt]

New ability suggestion for the Drifters:

"Get along little dogies..."

Automatic capture of mindworms. It works for the Gaians for the first one. Is it possible to set a 100% (or, in the alternative, merely high) capture rate without messing with the Planet rating?

(my unfamiliarity with SE reveals itself, I'm afraid)

[Blake]

quote: Originally posted by Walt on 03-01-2001 03:20 PM New ability suggestion for the Drifters: "Get along little dogies..." Automatic capture of mindworms. It works for the Gaians for the first one. Is it possible to set a 100% (or, in the alternative, merely high) capture rate without messing with the Planet rating? (my unfamiliarity with SE reveals itself, I'm afraid)

As far as I understand as long as you have a +ve planet rating the first mindworm capture is automatic. What you want is impossible I think. Ofcourse you could just have them START with a mindworm, like the cult does.

On techshare: The Data Angels in SMAX have techshare 3, but you need to infiltrate first. It is quite a lot more powerfull if set so you don't need infiltration, as it gives those early "must have" techs like Cent Ecology, applied physics and so on. Techshare 2 is probably too powerfull, altough a great equaliser for a couple of factions with a "research pact" that tend to run away with the game.

So my opinion is that Techshare 3, with infiltration is too weak. Techshare 3 without infiltration is a strong ability in early-mid game, especially if the faction suffers from slow research. Techshare 2 would have to be coupled with fairly stiff penalties, as it would still be benefical even late in the game.

Blake

[Walt]

Dimension wrote:

quote: Originally posted by Dimension on 02-28-2001 09:13 PM Yes, you can give any faction the "Revolt" ability of the Drones, but I have never seen the Drones actually get a base this way. Keep in mind that revolting is different than just rioting. It only happens after several turns of riots, and the AI will stave a city down to nothing before they will let it stay in riots. The Dianetics +2 probe ability might allow them to just incite riots until a city revolts. Maybe someone can comment as to whether incited riots can ever lead to an AI revolt or not.

Ah, but my thought was to have the base-steal ability activate on a /riot/, rather than just a revolt. It would thus become powerful in proportion to its chance of success.

Walt

[Blake]

quote: +2 PLANET: Environmentally conscious; skilled mindworm capture -1 MORALE: Disinterested in military training Free TREE FARM at every base: Concerned with making Planet beautiful -50% cost to PROBE TEAM actions: Naturals at persuasion Receives DOUBLE votes in elections: Loved by all Need HAB COMPLEX for bases to exceed size 3: Detest close quarters May not make Power choice in social engineering.

Okay, I had some ideas for balancing the chosen tree farms. I would suggest

+2 Planet
Free TREE FARMS
-25% cost to PROBE TEAM actions
+50% Council votes
And to balanced that:
Need HAB COMPLEX for base to exceed size 5
-2 Police
-1 Morale
+50% Rush buy costs : Balances the +50% econ tree farms gives, this makes sense too, because rushing a construction project would have to be at expense of the ecology. If this seems quite a penalty consider in the early game the chosen would still be able to turn there energy into infrastructure more cheaply than other factions, for example:
Normal faction
Produce 10 credits
Expend 5 on upkeep
5 left over for rush buy

Chosen
Produce 10 credits, increased to 15 by tree farms
expend 5 on upkeep
10 leftover, "effective" value 10/1.5 = 7 credits.


So prehaps also have a -2 police penalty, this would mean chosen would have to divert some of the energy into drone control, the +50% pysch from tree farms would allow "friendly" drone control quite easily, even in the early game. They would also suffer no more than standard factions under FM.

Well, hopefully there are some good ideas in there

[Dimension]

quote: Originally posted by Blake on 03-02-2001 02:51 AM Okay, I had some ideas for balancing the chosen tree farms...

Well, that's ironic... I was already done with my updates when I noticed your post

The -25% probe cost and hab complex for bases over 5 was exactly what I did... And the -1 INDUSTRY is probably about as big a balancing factor as -2 POLICE would be... or maybe you could compare it to your +50% rush suggestion, which may still be a good idea.

I think keeping them from pop-booming is certainly enough to not have to worry about a whole lot of other restrictions. Even with the restrictions, by the time you've got a bunch of formers going, you're basically giving them the ability to start off new cities at size 5 if you let them pop-boom. Even without Planned, you couldn't still get a huge number of new bases to size 7 with Ascitic Virtues and Cloning Vats.

Unfortunately, you can't give a faction +50% votes. Your options are just whole numbers from 0X to 8X your normal votes.

[Dimension]

Just wanted to let everybody know that I made a lot of changes, and edited the first message to show the new factions as well as a list of the changes made.

[cbn]

Nice going dimension.

The changes make them so that it is beyond my ability to predict a runaway strongest. Is there a way to have the AI play out some games against each other to see how the AI can handle the various abilities?

Once I figure out the faction editor stuff better I might have to download these guys to play against. Could be a challenge to play a standard faction against 6 of these guys.