Weakest factions?

[Maniac]

I was wondering, what are generally considered the weakest faction in the game when played by humans? Could you please vote for the three factions that you consider the weakest? Thanks.

[Method]

hmmm....They're all fairly balanced, and are equally 'strong' when played to their strengths. However, i'm going to go by my experiences with them.

Believers, yes i know are great if you just use a lot of probes and conquer the hell out of everyone. But...eh. I don't like the idea of -2 research.

Drones. I guess they just don't fit my playing style...

Angels. With this one, their only bonus is probe...And that's not much of a 'niche' if you ask me.

Was going to say pirates, but it really depends on the map. If there's a lot of ocean shelf, they can rock. If not, then they'll really have a hard time.

Whoever voted for the aliens, I don't see why. If anything, they're overpowered. When you play as them, you can just gas the hell out of everyone...

[Chaos Theory]

Cult, Spartans, and Believers.

For the first two, negative industry is a harsh penalty, and neither faction has strong enough strengths to make up for it.

The Drones have just as strong a research penalty as the Believers, but they can make up for it faster by churning out cities, formers, and supply crawlers much faster, thanks to +2 industry and -1 drone/city.

I am aware that the three factions I mentioned can do rather well in cramped quarters, but I rarely play games on maps smaller than Large, and try to avoid having factions start very near each other.

[Method]

the cult's not that underpowered, really. This, as the cult on standard map of planet...

Starting at the freshwater sea, i managed to conquer morgan within the first 10 turns. Then by trolling the fungus i was able to get a whole bunch more worms, which made short work of Domai after being loaded onto a few captured (by gun a foil) IODs. Said IODs were able to quickly hand Svensgaard his arse on a platter. By now it's about 2200, the mind worms are mature and great boils, it's just a matter of time before you can reach the other three factions...I only built a grand total of five bases the whole game, and won a diplomatic victory (ok, so i cheated a little in that regard, but diplomatic gives more points than conquest )

Industry and economy penalties are negligible, since you can capture your entire army and steal all the tech you need.

[Guynemer]

I don't think the Spartans are weak at all.

Yes, the industry penalty can hurt, but it is more than made up for by their support bonus. For most of the game, you'll effectively have a positive industry rating, simply because you won't lose as many minerals to support.


I'd say the Angels, Believers... hard to come up with a third one. Well, at least as played by the AI, I'd say the Cult.

[CEO Aaron]

Uh... What support bonus? The Spartans have no support bonus innately, they can run police or power or both, but those choices have substantial penalties to energy production and industry, respectively.

Spartans are my number one choice for weakest faction. They're mediocre in all categories, the discounted prototypes is a negligible bonus, the inability to run Wealth coupled with an already weak industrial base makes them incapable of anything but the most halfhearted builder-style strategies, and for a momentum faction, their bonuses are decidedly weak.

The morale bonus only makes a difference in the early-mid game, if you don't capitalize on it then, by the later portions of the midgame, everyone else will have equally elite units if they choose. By comparison, the Believers get additional support, allowing much larger armies, and an attack bonus which helps the entire game-long. Yang enjoys superior industry and growth, and enjoys an inefficiency-free planned/police SE choice that makes a permanent war footing a viable alternative.

If the Spartans morale bonus could somehow translate to troops that would be elite-plus, that would make their penalties worth abiding, but sadly, this is not the case.

My number two choice for weakest faction is the Pirates. Also saddled with the crushing -1 industry penalty, and an efficiency penalty to boot, these guys have a horrible opening game, further crippled by the fact that all their early units are 50-100% more expensive than their land-based counterparts. Add to that the problem that IOD's move 4 spaces to rush up on undefended bases without warning, and you have a faction that must expand slowly and conservatively, and spends most of the game playing catch-up, until one of the land-based factions takes notice of them and extinguishes them.

Proponents of both the Spartans and Pirates point out that their early exploration allows them to collect more pods than other factions. However, my experience has led me to firmly believe that when playing at Transcend difficulty, opening pods away from bases _more_ often produces negative results than positive ones. So I'll happily take half the pods if I can open them with a base next door, ensuring that such horrors as mindworms and earthquakes can't happen, and increasing my likelihood of finding the all-powerful alien artifact, then I count the 'exploration bonus' a non-advantage.

Number 3 in the weakest faction contest is the Cult. Again, the industry penalty is horrid, coupled with an equally devastating economy penalty, to make a faction whose only hope lies in going worm heavy in the first stages of the game, and hoping they get lucky. The only upside I see to this faction is the worm-police bonus, and a short trip to raising of nutrient restrictions, allowing an early population surge, with proper micromanagement. However, this is extremely tricky to bring off, and a Morganite or University wonder-grabber getting PTS will almost certainly leapfrog you come midgame.

[Method]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
Pirates...-1 industry penalty...

That's growth. And there's more than enough nutrients at sea.

[CEO Aaron]

And another thing...

I do find the oft-maligned Believers to be an exceedingly strong faction. High support rating, and a combat bonus that never becomes irrelevant make the Believers the most powerful and flexible of the momentum factions, hampered only by a single drawback, namely the research penalty.

Skilled use of probe teams, coupled with a large and aggressive military can render your tech problems entirely moot, leaving you with a strong balanced faction. Good support allows ample use of formers, while still allowing a substantial garrison and expeditionary force.

[CEO Aaron]

Method, you're right. My mistake. Nevertheless, I'm sticking with my story. Just like in real life, Pirates die when someone real takes the effort to destroy them.

[Method]

True they have a slow early game, but there's always a lot of minerals at sea for them. Mining platforms are 2 minerals, + pirate bonus + trunklines + bonus at advanced ecological engineering can make them 5 minerals each. That and free naval yards at doctine: initiative gives them a 100% defensive bonus. So it might be a little tricky to pull off against anything but the AI, but still....

EDIT: +no aversion SE settings.

[Chaos Theory]

The Pirates do suffer, even at sea. Mining platforms preclude tidal harnesses, which are wonderful for energy. Subsea Trunklines cost 4 energy in maintenance and are expensive to build, so I never build them. I'd much rather have a kelp + harness tile producing 4-1-4 (with aquafarm and thermocline transducer) than a kelp + mine tile producing 3-3-0 before EcoEng2 (which is rather late) and with the expensive Trunkline.

To take advantage of the free naval yards on defense, you need to defend with ships, but ships in bases suffer greatly against air; air attacks at double strength. No one should bother attacking pirates with ships, anyway.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Clarify whether you mean weakest plyed by a human, or played by the AI, they are very different. Generally the the AI run well the more exoctic/unbalanced factions, while ha human can very effectively exploit their strength and avoid their weakness.

[Jamski]

The main advantage the Pirates have, that we've all forgotten, is that they can always grab all the best landmarks, with some skill and luck.

Monsoon forest is soooo good it hurts.

-Jam

[Guynemer]

Silly me, I forgot the Spartans don't have an inate support bonus.


However, if one plays them as PS/Green/Power, you have an industrial and military juggernaut, with only a minor growth penalty.

Not my favorite faction by a longshot, but I find it hard to believe they are one of the three weakest.


EDIT: assuming you use your increased support to build the SP that eliminates the negative aspect of Power... Cyborg Factory? Can't seem to remember...

[Jac de Molay]

Nah, the Cyborg Factor enhances the Power SE because its a bioenhancement center in every base(+2 morale, all).

I don't particularly care for the Morgans. It takes a set of favorable circumstances for them to get going, but that's just me I guess. Also, a rather dull faction: not a lot of leeway to get out and explore like my two faves: Hive and Gaians.