Transcended in MY.2172 by Gaians

[Helium Pond]

Let me just say, I've been trying this myself and it's HARD! Like zsozso said, it's a lot of fun too! When I opened the save game on the fast transcend HOF, I was stunned--how the heck did this person get this score with so *little* evidence of dominance??? Everybody should look at that save game--it's really pretty stunning. I'm inspired--I'm trying to do it myself! Wheeee! Thanks guys.

Preparing to stop blithering,

HP

[zsozso]

You are right Korn469, I forgot to emphasize, that the main difference between this challenge and the UBC is that here everything is about speed. That's why there is no point saying it is easy...

For a parabole, compare a marathon runner and a 100m sprinter. The marathon runner might say: what's the point running a race on 100m ? It is very easy, everybody can run 100m ! Why don't you try 52km, you might die before you reach the Finish sign...

So, fast transcend games are like a sprint. It is a challenge on its own right: a race with time. You need different skills, different techniques, and only time matters not the fact that you reached the finish line (i.e. you have won by transcendence).

Zsozso

[korn469]

i will admit that every single fast transcend game i started on the optimal fast transcend settings were an easy victory over the AI...winning and even transcending is a given in these games, it is transcending before 2172 that is the hard part...my best game was 2176 and it took me a couple weeks of playing to get that score, there is alot of luck in these games and i might have to try going from my spartans to zsozso's gaians to win but i have only tried to top zsozsos score once or twice...i thought the 2176 games was one of the best i had played and i since it had been that hard getting a 2171 score was more than what i had time to try for as of right now

but my opinion is, it's a fun challenge, and to all those who think it's too easy, beat 2172

korn469

[David Byron]

Hehehe. Ok, the challenge is thrown down, and I have some ideas. I've been itching to spill the beans on them but I'll wait to see if I can smash that record on SMACX settings. So that's about 7 extra techs I think. [I'm not using anything required by SMACX] Should make a nice change from playing with the juggernaught of Cha Dawn but I *will* be playing Borg style on a small map.

Its NOT an advantage to play on a huge map for the Borg. Borg is not builder. It doesn't mind having neigbours to assimilate. They work out about the same as colonising empty space -- pros and cons. Just forget about that pact stuff. It's going to be hard to beat the score from all those commerce bonuses though.

No, the main difference in size is the same as difficulty levels. Smaller maps mean cheaper tech and better food and production too. This is just the same as playing on Citizen, but if the idea is a transcend by any settings in the "customise game" slot then half the fiddles will come from this and only the other half from in-game play.

[David Byron]

Transcend by Morgan in 2167. Now that I know what I'm doing i think i could do it quite a bit faster. Obviously "quite a bit" is a relative term for this challenge, but I used quite a different strategy because I can never be bothered messing with the AI.

This was different to zsozso's in many ways. It was SMACX so there were 75 techs minimum (there are 10 unnecessary techs). Knowledge of the way the tech choices are handed out was useful in avoiding all 10. Actually that turns out to be very easy. All you have to do is never pick to research Unified Field Theory.

I played on a custom sized map of 32x16 which appears to be the smallest the game allows. Tech costs seem linked to size of map pretty well. And probably difficulty level so I played on Citizen level. Customised size maps don't receive the bonus to growth and industry that the Tiny map gets, but IMO zsozso's method would gain from being played as Citizen. I suppose the idea of playing on Transcend is it means the AI gets to make regular contributions to the tech because its costs are practically nothing. I think the benefits of Citizen might offset this.

For one thing its not just the drones. There are various rules relaxed on Citizen. Whether zsozso's strategy would work on a 32x16 map I don't know -- I found the difference in tech costs worth the penalty to industry but he might not. Tech costs half as much as on a Tiny map.

I chose Morgan for the ability to plaster the map with 30 cities very quickly. Citizen level allows you (in fact mandates you) to keep the level one city when you build a colonist. With Wealth and normal support I was buying a new city for 34 energy. Each city was getting at least 8 energy from economy 4 plus being Governor. Plus Morgan gets 100 extra to begin with. Still I think next time I'll pp-boom a main big city and try and get some commerce bonuses.

Towards the end the cost of the last two SPs was the problem. The last tech only cost 500 and I was on about 1000/turn by then but I was keeping to about one tech/round or every other round at worst, all through the game. Coming up with the cash for the SPs was more of a challenge. Thankfull for the Unity core...

I had 33 cities out of a theoretical maximum of 63 for the map size. You have to pick a map with lots of land. The computer seems to give you the jungle as a special landmark each time, whereas on Tiny it gives you jungle, crater freshwater sea and mount planet I think.

I might try an alternative Borg-style attempt on Tiny with the drone faction. With all the industry bonuses they can get they could place down a colonist and be just 5 production short of a new colonist making up for the lack of money that Morgan had. They could avoid the FM route to research and go for librarians.

[David Byron]

Correction -- 2168 not 2167.

[zsozso]

Congratulations David!!!

Awesome result and very good tricks! The even smaller map and citizen-level for no base-abandoning are both neat! I'll have to try another game with these tips...

What factions did you have in the game ?
And did you enslave them or eliminated and did all the research yourself ?

Zsozso

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

David,

Clap, Clap, Clap, Applause Applause.

Very nice indeed.

Keep us all posted on any other tricks you come by.

Again congrats.

[David Byron]

My faction choice didn't make much difference as all but I AI died I think immidiately due to map size. They were started as 6 copies of the university -- that might have helped. I think possibly you could get 3 AI to survive if one was the pirates. I can make 6 survive on a map twioce the size -- but then tech costs 30% more.

I found incidentally that when I lost a city to the University (revolt) and took it back I had gained a network Node I could sell off. I didn't try to make a strategy of it -- seems a little too abusive. It does work though. I guess you couldn't do it *too* often as the AI would refuse your calls?

I used the re-birth tactic. I normally use this to get the free independent former. But on Citizen level you only start with one colonist so its much more usefull. What I *wasn't* counting on was the fact that (on Citizen anyway) Morgan gets an EXTRA 100 energy each time you re-birth. [110 actually but I guess normal factions get the 10]. I haven't noticed this before but then I don't play Morgan normally.

None of my cities were very large so I didn't worry about trade income. My impression is that zsozso's strategy is reliant on trade energy and that AI research helps a lot. The AI gave me about 5 techs early on but basically I researched them all myself using small cities. Nothing larger than 4 and I built only one research hospital. Also with SMACX Unified Field Theory is not required for transcendence so no 2nd SP for research. I didn't build the Universal translator either -- no alien artifacts on such a tiny map.

Generally a very different technique.

[David Byron]

I think a hybrid method of the two could do better than either.

[David Byron]

Something else I tried: I built satelites and had +3 energy / city and +1 production. For the last four turns I had all workers as Transcendi for +4 research each.

[Rusty Nail]

I have been looking at szoszo's save file and have a couple of questions. I am rather new to smac and am having some difficulty understanding the lab point calculations in his five cities. It seems that network node + fusion lab + hospital together only add 50% to the lab bonus points of one transcendi (4+2=6) with lab % set to 0.Is this the general understanding (i.e. They are not cumulative)? Then why buy more than one of them? The answer may be the following, at least for one city. When we add the supercollider, the lab points go up by a factor of 4, not 2 (to 24)in a city with these three but WITHOUT quantum lab( which is advertised as being cumulative with fusion lab) (try it by removing the quantum lab in one of his cities). Putting in the quantum lab now adds only an additional 5 lab points for one transcendi (to 29). I would have expected 12, i.e. (4+2)x2. Can anyone explain the math to me? I find it confusing. Am I missing something here? Are there other factors affecting lab points?

Also I am curious to know how szoszo enslaved the whole world without losing a single one of his very few units, almost all of which were "independent". Is this normal in this strat? And why did he never build a farm in the Monsoon jungle?

I look forward to trying out some of these strats.

[Rusty Nail]

I have been looking at szoszo's save file and have a couple of questions. I am rather new to smac and am having some difficulty understanding the lab point calculations in his five cities. It seems that network node + fusion lab + hospital together only add 50% to the lab bonus points of one transcendi (4+2=6) with lab % set to 0.Is this the general understanding (i.e. They are not cumulative)? Then why buy more than one of them? The answer may be the following, at least for one city. When we add the supercollider, the lab points go up by a factor of 4, not 2 (to 24)in a city with these three but WITHOUT quantum lab( which is advertised as being cumulative with fusion lab) (try it by removing the quantum lab in one of his cities). Putting in the quantum lab now adds only an additional 5 lab points for one transcendi (to 29). I would have expected 12, i.e. (4+2)x2. Can anyone explain the math to me? I find it confusing. Am I missing something here? Are there other factors affecting lab points?

Also I am curious to know how szoszo enslaved the whole world without losing a single one of his very few units, almost all of which were "independent". Is this normal in this strat? And why did he never build a farm in the Monsoon jungle?

I look forward to trying out some of these strats.

[Rusty Nail]

Sorry about the above duplication. By the way, what is "UBC" and where can I read up more about UBC and the various other challenges referred to in this thread? I have looked over the last 1oo days without much luck.

[Rusty Nail]

I just discovered the answer to one of my own questions. I missed the "Theory of Everything" SP which explains the X4 rather than x2 I was expecting. The other things remain question marks for me.