strategy to conquer seabases

[Skanderbeg]

Yesterday I invented a strategy to conquer seabases.
I don't know if it's new for everybody, but it was new for me, so I post it here, because someone can use it like me.

I was playing Cha Dawn and was in vendetta with Santiago.
The problem: Santiago had several sea bases near my continent, with a AAA-defender and several needlejets.
Attack by ships wasn't useful, because after the first attack (succesful or not), the needlejets destroy the ship. Attack by needlejets wouldn't be succesful because of the AAA.

My solution:
First strike: Conventional missile. Kills the best defender, the AAA.
Second strike: Attack with the needlejets. Destroys Santiagos needlejets right on the ground.
Third strike: The cruiser conquers the empty base.
Rush-build Scout-Patrol.

Now the turn is on Santiago. If I had luck, Santiago didn't attack my ship, and I, on my turn conquered the
next base.

Sometimes Santiago destroyed my ship. But then there was still the rush-built Scout Patrol.

Whatever happend, on my turn I upgraded the Scout Patrol, to AAA 1-Best-1, and the conquered base was safe for me.

[Horus]

Apperently it worked so congrats

I haven't got that clever opposition by the AI, as the one you describes, yet. Usually I don't need to build any missiles (because of the usual but maybe nmisguiided notion that these one-use-weapons are to expensive). But someday I migth need it and certainly in MP games, I guess. But Aerospace C, AAA and Elite troops tend to fend very good for themself and their base when you send missiles.

[big_canuk]

Another way to skin the tough sea base, is to use multiple ships. Just attack if you are strong enough. Then use more ships or noodles to take out the noodles or transports. I like capturing with a 2-3-4 (they are cheap to build, only 2x a scout, so if you loose it, no big deal). A benefit of this stratagy is that if the base is real tough, and has defenders that pose a problem for your ships attack strength, you can artillery the base for a turn or two. Just use one of your noodles to cover the ships, so his noodle can't get them. This of course becomes more complicated when the AI figures out how to use interceptors.

The tough land base is a different story. It often requires probes to take out defensive facilities like areospace complexes, and or perimiter defenses. This is sometimes easier/quicker than artillery.

[Sikander]

One way to defend that base once you have captured it is to use a transport (sea or air) to rush a good AAA defender into the base.

I find ships useful throughout the game, though later on in the game they have to work hand in hand (as mentioned above) with your air force. I love pounding an enemy base full of troops with (sea based) artillery before I bring up the choppers. Then a fast AAA cruiser (1-Best-X, AAA) to capture the base and hold it. They are quite cheap even with Fusion power.

[Gothar]

I'm also one of those players who is reluctent to use missile but I'm starting to see their uses.

[Skanderbeg]

Hy Horus and Gothar!

I have read in many threads that only few players use missiles, because they are one-use and expensive.
So did I beginning to play SMAC.
But I learned to use them from the attacks the AI did with them on me. Their strengh is their power (normally kill all units except AAA or elite in well defended bases) and especially their long range. With missiles, You get Your hand deep in enemies territory.
If You play quite good, in midgame You should have a half dozen of bases or more which could build a missile
in 2, 3, or even 5 turns. So I use to put a missile in one building qeue every turn, and I get, in average, one missile per turn.

I use them often as First-strike-weapons as mentioned above, to take out the best defender of a base I want to conquer. They come very handy, If an enemy appears suprisingly in Your territory or an enemies ship begins to bomb Your enhancemens. Sometimes I even use them to destroy locusts. And, if Your enemy begins to build a secret project or a planet buster, You can bomb the base of the project until the AI switches back to build a defender, an get in this way the time to build the SP Yourself.

Greetings Skanderbeg

[Horus]

I really do see your point Skand. And further, as I often play on large, not to say huge maps, I often find large areas which are bona fide wasteland. Imagine some airbases some landrows inland (so that you don't locate the base from the sea), far from you own land.

Your opponents will have a hard time trying to locate were the heck the misslies come from, missiles who tends to sink every important convoy, Alien artifact etc one can think of. Much valuable resources and time will be spent hunting secret launching sites.

Btw can you give the AA ability to a missile?

[Skanderbeg]

quote: Originally posted by Horus on 12-06-2000 05:20 AM Btw can you give the AA ability to a missile?

Missiles can't have any special abilities.
But AA didn't make sense on a missile because it has armour 1.

But I would have liked to build a nerve gas missile,
which is also impossible.

[Horus]

Hrm, I meant the ability do actually attack air crafts, not just fend them of in a better way. But you gave the answer anyway, no special abilities. Nerve gas and long distant anti aircraft missiles makes complete sense on the other hand.

Or imagine a new Orbital defense pod, attack pod actually, which targets aircrafts (maybe not low flying helicopters and hoovercrafts). Then air units would be less outstanding indeed. But I'm drifting away in my own fantasies now, I'll better stop. Right here. Now. That's it. Hmmm, Attack pods.......

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Skand,

It looks like your approach works. For the most part though I normally rely on the tried and true use of Marines Aka jar heads.

Load up a transport full of marines and cover with a needlejet (preferably a tactical if the AI is smart enough to also build air superiority fighters).

Move transport up to base and ensure one movement point is left. Click on transport and activate Marines. Take out AAA and then noodlejets. Allow one Marine or other to remain unmoved.

Once base is vacated of all those offending AI units take base with last marine and move transport with damaged Marines into safe harbor. Land your tactical. If you can achieve the conquest with another marine unit free, you have the option of upgrading the other marine to a AAA configuration.

A full fusion transport with best weapon marines (8) is a devastating thing to behold as sea base after sea base falls (especially if the marines are elite), and the good thing is it works even in the later stage of the game when AAA and aerospace make it more of a challenge for chopper/locusts combos to take well defended bases.

Og

[cbn]

Sounds like a good strategy Skanderbeg, although I am in the camp that seldom builds missles except for a long range strike or to go for a particularly crucial base. Interestingly the AI loves them. I nerve gassed a Usurper base out of existence and then found that there were 14 !! missles that I was able to take out with the remaining attacks from 2 choppers and then sent a couple of noodles. Then 3 more flew away !!

Back on point. I generally use ships and choppers to take seabases since I have rarely encountered seriously defended sea bases. On the occasions when there is serious defence I might bombard with 2-3 attack-only vessles (very cheap ) before chopper swarming the base and then taking it with a 1-best AAA unit. Just as often I might empty the base but not take it (if I already have good, well protected staging areas for future attacks) since the AI is as likely as not on the next turn to send jets and missles into the base and it can build only one good defender. Even if a great defender is built another round of bombardment means that it is not that hard to take out and then the grounded air units are sitting ducks.

Infiltration is key on all this. If the plan is based on the location of the opposing forces you should be ok. I tend to bring much more force than is needed to a theatre before attacking in a blitz at several bases at once. Before even seriously thinking about taking the seabase I would want the ability to take out most of the potential counterattackers on the same strike. -- Its pride I know but I try to NEVER lose a base to the AI (don't always succeed).

All in all, I think there are a number of ways to take bases and players may favor different units. Your strategy seems very sound. I just happen to be totally biased in favor of choppers for their ability to kill so many units.

One question about missles-- how would the attack work if there was a mindworm defender? Is it the standard formula for psi warfare and if so isn't that illogical for what is presumably an unmanned weapon ? -- just curious


cbn

[This message has been edited by cbn (edited December 06, 2000).]

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

CBN,

It is my understnading that missiles against native the missile always perfectly attack and perfectly defend.

So if your base is under worm rape situations supposedly a single missile shuttled in will provide adequate defense 'gainst worm
s.

Likewise a missile will always destroy a native.

[DilithiumDad]

Ogie, your suggestion of marines is right on. Most players neglect marines, but they are part of a balanced force and they are most useful against sea bases.

One added tidbit: try building an amphibious rover or two. I always use a marine to take out the top defender, but there are often air units or transports there as well. An amphibious rover can take out two weak units or take out one and then capture the base while getting instantly repaired!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

D-dad,

Your right on with the speeder approach. I neglected this and shouldn't have. Most times I end up putting 1-1-1 's on a transport and unpgrade along the way to destination sea base, but same approach can be done with 1-1-2's and the extra move is invaluable (and is extremely nice if it's an elite with 3 attacks).

Normally I find myself building thos amphib-speeders when I want to take out those blasted Pirate bases that end up ringing my continent. I attack from land and take theose nicelittle bases giving me a secured homeland with a ring of sea bases.

Thanks Sven

[Aredhran]

Why bother with infantry marines in the first place ?

Just fill up your transport with top~-1-2 and one or two 1-top-1 with whatever special defensive abilities are needed...