how do you control drones?

[mark13]

quote: If you still haven't got it, too bad. My head is starting to hurt.

Ooooh....

********************

Anyway, thankyou Fitz, for clearing that up, I should have done that from the beginning, really, it would have saved a lot of time and effort....

I still have one small query, though, you said it had 16 energy allocated to economy, are you sure that isn't the total energy the base is raking in? I am not, by any sretch of the imagination, sure about this, but it would make more sens, seeing as I get a reasonable amount of trade whilst devoting practically nothing to economy.....

Mark13

[Fitz]

No, I'm not sure. I just interpreted the line 'sum the combined economic output' to mean after it has been filtered throught the SE %s. Could easily be wrong. Try a tect case in any game you have. Adjust the % and see if it affects it.

I've had interpretation problems before. I never did test the eco-damage one in which I personally still interpret the line about Centauri Preserves & Temples of planet to mean they do not have a global effect, only a base specific one. Maybe I'll find the time to test that this weekend.

[Basil]

Not only is it your economic output before it's filtered through the %'s, it's your economic output before you count energy from crawlers(!)

I'm not sure whether orbital improvements count or not.

I was pretty surprised when I noticed this .

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Basil,

Wow!!! Thats news to me. Trade not affected by crawlered energy. Hmmm.... that makes specializing and crawlering energy less attractive/effective than I originally presupposed. Traditional workered energy then is potentially (sats unknown?) the only energy used in calculating trade income. Are you sure this is true?

Og

[mark13]

No, it looks crystal clear to me - and it is a very good point, something which I had failed to take into account....

[Fitz]

quote: Originally posted by mark13 on 11-02-2000 12:01 PM 3) For each pair of bases, sum the combined economic output and divide by 8, rounding up. 4) Double if Global Trade Pact. 5) Now, for each individual base, the commerce formula is as follows: (Value from step4) * (CommerceTech+1)/(Total CommerceTech+1) 6) Commerce Tech is the number of commerce technologies discovered (I think it means by your faction), plus commerce and faction bonuses. 7) Total Commerce Tech is the number of total economic technologies in the game. 8) Using the value from step 5, divide by 2 if no Pact (only a Treaty). 9) Add 1 if you are planetary governor.

Mis, to summarize how each part of the game (that you should have already known about having an affect, if not how) affects your commerce, I'll # them.
Take a base with 16 energy to econ, paired of with a pact brothers that gives 24 to econ, with global trade pact on.

3) (16+24)/8 = 5
4) Global trade pact on means 5*2=10
5) Let's skip this and come back to it.
6) assume you have discovered 3 commerce techs. In addition, you are morgan, so you get +1 commerce (4 total), you have +3 ECONOMY for another +1 commerce (5 total), and you have a GA in your base for another +1 commerce (6 total). Your CommerceTech rating is effectively = 6.
7) assume (since I cant remember) there are 9 Total Commerce Techs in the game.

back to step 5:
(Step4value)*(CommerceTech+1)/(TotalCommerceTech+1) = 10*7/10 = 7

8) skip since you are pact brothers
9) if you are the governor, 7+1=8

You get 8 points.

Now reread my step 6. If you hadn't gotten the +1 form Morgans bonus, GA, or your ECON rating, the value would have been 3. If you had plugged that into step 5, you would only be getting 4 ec from commerce at that base, not 7 ec. Compound that base by base, and for each faction you have freindly relations with, and it can become significant, especially if you are outputting significant energy to econ in each base.

That's also assuming there are as many as 9 TotalCommerceTechs in the game. I'm not sure there are that many. In my example, each +1 commerce is another +1 energy (per trade per base). If there are only 4 TotalCommerceTechs, it would be +2.

If you still haven't got it, too bad. My head is starting to hurt.

-Fitz

[Basil]

Heya Ogie!

I can't tell for sure that energy from crawlers is not included in trade calculations, because the trade calculations are just so complicated. But I do know that it is not included when calculating base size for purposes of pairing the base with a trading partner's base. For example, a base with workers producing 30 energy and no crawler energy will be paired with a foreign base ahead of another base where the workers produce 28 energy and crawlers produce 8 energy. I assume this means that crawler energy is not included in trade calculations, but stranger things have happened.

[Black Sunrise]

quote: Originally posted by Fitz on 11-03-2000 02:18 PM I've had interpretation problems before. I never did test the eco-damage one in which I personally still interpret the line about Centauri Preserves & Temples of planet to mean they do not have a global effect, only a base specific one. Maybe I'll find the time to test that this weekend.

I've been testing it in my bragging topic. I'm over 700 minerals and no eco damage. Pop is 60, so (60*2.5) 150 of that is orbital. So 550 ground based minerals, no eco damage. I'd say effects are global, since that figure has gone up a lot as my outlying cities came on-line.
Just build 500 preserves, temples, nanofactories, tree farms and hybrid forests.
I'm still trying to push that number up, btw.
must...play.....
must....not....sleep....

[Misotu]

Ogie/Basil

I can confirm that crawlered energy does not count towards commerce income calculations. I've played a number of MP games where I have one city with vast amounts of crawlered energy and a lot of specialists (ie low energy generated by actual workers). The commerce income for this city is far lower than that for other bases with more energy generated by workers, and it is not paired with the best base(s) of my pactmate(s). Just to give you an idea, my base with energy crawlers might have an energy income of 100+ by comparison with 30-40 for my next best base, so it's quite clear when you do the comparison.

I spent a lot of time looking at this and trying to max the energy generated by my few workers as a result.

[Fitz]

BS, that's not a true test. If you want to test if it is a global function or not, do this:

Save the game.
Destroy the Centuari Preserve/Temple of Planet in half the bases.

Obviously, the eco-damage will go up in the bases you have destroyed the Preseves in. The question is, will it go up in the bases you did not destroy the Preserves in?

If it doesn't, then the effect is local to each base only. If it does, then may be a global effect. What kind of glabal effect is then open to discussion.

Let me know. You may want to run it foward a turn or two, in case it takes a turn for the change to kick in (globally).
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited November 06, 2000).]

[Misotu]

Gregurabi: Thanks for the explanation, which was very clear indeed I did know this already, and I should have made that clear. I had already looked at the energy generated by the bases paired with mine - it's early days, and involves pacts, so it's fairly easy to see what is paired with what. The numbers can't be explained by the fact that Bases X and Y are generating very different amounts of energy, which was why I was curious ...

Fitz: Thanks for the further info. I'm really no good on formulae, particularly not complex ones, so feel free to be as insulting as you like on this score

Well ... so here's the easy bit that I *can* cope with. My base (A) is paired with another faction's base (B). A is not in GA. A gets 5ec from trade, B gets 2.

Next turn, energy generated by bases A & B is identical. SE settings for both parties are identical. A is still paired with B. A is now in GA. A still gets 5ec from trade, B still gets 2.

If I cancel the pact, base A gets 3, base B gets 1. Again regardless of GA.

So then I looked at the formula. Thanks for the explanations. I've tried to find the total number of "economic" techs in the game but of course the DL doesn't tell you and I'm not even sure how an economic tech would be defined, so I abandoned it.

Looking at the formula, though, it's now clear to me that the effect from GA could easily get lost in the rounding by the time you've done the multiplying and dividing business - unlike the effect of pacts and the governorship, which come right at the end after everything else has been done.

So I suppose that the +1 economy of GA is not so very significant then really or not perhaps until mid to late game. I thought it would have more impact in the early game - something like pacts/governorship - hence my confusion.
[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited November 06, 2000).]

[Qualicide]

late in the game, especialy with larger bases and trancends its easy to control drones. simply use trancends for the +4 labs +2 econ and +2 pych, better then engeneers in everything but econ, and +2 pych with modifiers should be enough for all the drones in the world

half way to king! woot!
http://thangorodrim.angband.org/angband.html (allright meybe i didnt make it)
[This message has been edited by Qualicide (edited November 09, 2000).]