Tech Trading vs. Probe Rape vs. Do Your Own Research

[Petek]

Originally posted by Mongoose
It's an option in the dialogue box when conducting the probe operation.

If Mongoose and Chaos Theory say this can be done, then I gotta believe it can be done. However, I just tested this in a game I had going and didn't see any options for selecting a specific tech when probing a base. Perhaps this appears only in multi-player games?

[Chaos Theory]

I have noticed the option missing at times, but haven't pinned down why. Maybe if your success rate would be 0% it's not shown? Maybe a lack of infiltration is a factor?

[Nakar Gabab]

Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
In Civ3 on the higher levels, it's impossible to get far ahead before the mid-midgame.

Well that's not ENTIRELY true. With a little (okay, a lot) of blatant and aggressive warmongering you can be in the driver's seat by the end of the early game. But that's more the SMAC equivalent of taking Lal, Zak, Miriam, Santiago, or (my favorite for sheer ridiculousness) Aki-Zeta and rushing to Impact Rovers and the like at the outset of the game, then steamrolling everyone in your path until you run out of land.

The thing is, in SMAC we call that "excessive momentum-style play." In Civ3, we call that a "standard early-game opening play."

[Jamski]

I have noticed the option missing at times, but haven't pinned down why. Maybe if your success rate would be 0% it's not shown? Maybe a lack of infiltration is a factor?

You need infilteration and veteran+ probes.

-Jam

[Petek]

Originally posted by Jamski


You need infilteration and veteran+ probes.

-Jam

Still can't reproduce this feature. Opened a current game in the scenario editor. Placed three Elite probes next to another faction's base. Used the first probe to infiltrate. The other faction had two techs (Nonlinear Math and High Energy Chem) that I didn't have. Was not offered a choice when I sent in the next probe to steal a tech. Success rates were 100%,84%.

Is it possible that we are talking about stealing a tech when capturing a base? You do get to choose in that situation.

[UnityScoutChopper]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage


What's your definition of late early game? It's quite possible to be three times as powerful in the powergraphs as the second AI at the 2130's or 2140's by building the PTS.

YEAAAAAAGH, MM! I hope you're not really that good! Getting both IA and the minerals needed for a level-two secret project in the 2130's is unthinkable for me in most cases.

On the other hand, I was actually thinking of the science aspect alone, where with the right faction and sometimes even with the "wrong" one, I'm vastly more likely to be ahead in the 2130's than I am likely to have built the PTS by then. On the other other hand, I almost certainly won't be far enough in science in all branches (most notably the weapons branches), nor rich enough in minerals, to be already be spending artifacts on science in the 2130's. Yeesh!

I'll say, though, it's nice to see another PTS fan, as it is often pooh-poohed in favor of the VW (though actually, I too often risk losing the PTS before risking the loss of the VW).

USC

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper


YEAAAAAAGH, MM! I hope you're not really that good! Getting both IA and the minerals needed for a level-two secret project in the 2130's is unthinkable for me in most cases.

Well, I'm playing with the University, so getting IA early is very easy. I'm currently playing from Sikander's start save in his builder game ( thread here ) and I got IA by 2115. I must confess that I didn't complete the PTS before 2141, but that's because I decided to build the VW on the same turn in order to be able to control the drones.

Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
On the other hand, I was actually thinking of the science aspect alone, where with the right faction and sometimes even with the "wrong" one, I'm vastly more likely to be ahead in the 2130's than I am likely to have built the PTS by then. On the other other hand, I almost certainly won't be far enough in science in all branches (most notably the weapons branches), nor rich enough in minerals, to be already be spending artifacts on science in the 2130's. Yeesh!

I usually use my artifacts for secret projects early on. Besides, I like to very careful with my beelines.

Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
I'll say, though, it's nice to see another PTS fan, as it is often pooh-poohed in favor of the VW (though actually, I too often risk losing the PTS before risking the loss of the VW).

USC

I'd still take the VW first, but both of them are very nice, especially with the University. I have to say that getting both the VW and the HGP with the Uni means no problem with the drones. In fact, I've found that there's no need to build recreation commons at all.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Petek

Is it possible that we are talking about stealing a tech when capturing a base? You do get to choose in that situation.

I don't understand. What's the difference between probing without capturing a base or probing when capturing a base? Or are you talking about when tech spill option is on?

[UnityScoutChopper]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage


....the University...

Aha. Yes, the University does make this kind of start easier (unless you have a really bad start spot), since you can more easily afford to pick and choose tech trades. I had my first win with the Uni years ago, and I have hardly played them since -- not that I dislike them, it's just that I'd like for my first next victory over my #1 enemy -- boredom -- to be with another faction.

USC

[Petek]

Originally posted by HongHu


I don't understand. What's the difference between probing without capturing a base or probing when capturing a base? Or are you talking about when tech spill option is on?

Yes, I need to elaborate on what I meant. You can probe a base simply to attempt to steal a tech (that's one of the basic actions that a probe unit can take). Some posters said that this action gives you the option to specify which tech you want to steal. I can't duplicate that possibility. However, you also can use a probe unit to subvert a base ("Mind Control" it). If the "Spoils of War" (Techsteal) option is set to On, then you _are_ given a choice of which tech to take after you subvert the base. I was suggesting that this latter possibility is to what the earlier posters referred.

[johndmuller]

Perhaps it depends on the game version - SMAC vs SMAX, or upgrade/patch level.

I don't recall seeing the choice thing during regular probe operations either, but I do believe it, given the testimonials here. Must make a point of checking this out, as I know I have used the presumed lack of choice as a reason not to probe someone without first getting any outstanding techs from my allies, to avoid getting a duplicate. OTOH IIRC, I'm pretty sure I have been offered a choice of techs when conquering a base as the CyCon - and without infiltration too, I believe.

(BTW, when Spoils of War / Techsteal thing is on, it also applies to conquering a base militarily as well.)

[Mongoose]

I am shamed to admit that my memory is faulty. I, too cannot find a way to steal a specific tech, though I would have sworn I had done so in the past.

Not the first time I have been wrong, won't be the last.

[Chaos Theory]

I am certain I have stolen specific techs with probe teams, though I don't know the circumstances that determine when this is possible.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Mongoose
I am shamed to admit that my memory is faulty. I, too cannot find a way to steal a specific tech, though I would have sworn I had done so in the past.

Not the first time I have been wrong, won't be the last.

I have also been given that option but I am wondering if you need a certain probe rating to do it-- I will take a look the next time I am probing someone

[Fazdaar]

I've always been given a choice to decide which tech I want to steal when I probe a base. It may be because I don't use probes much, so when I finally crank some out they already tend to be veteran or better so I've just never noticed this problem.